Many of the new flourescents have the warm up, flicker, and 'chalky white' problems solved. But still not compatible with dimming, alas. And there is still that pesky drop of Mercury in every one. I have switched almost all the bulbs I can over. I still have some dimmers, and halogens, and other fixtures which flourescents are not yet available and/or suitable for.

I've heard that CFLs (fluorescents) don't work very well in extreme cold.

Also, they don't last any longer than incandescents if you flip them on and off frequently. They say you should leave the light on for at least 15 minutes to maximize their longevity... Seems silly to me. I just need to flip the light on for 30 seconds while I use the bathroom, but then I have to leave it on for an extra 14:30 while I'm not even in there just to "be efficient?" No, doesn't add up...

Also, one of the arguments against incandescents is that some large percentage of the electricity used is "wasted in the form of heat." Maybe in the summer, but around here for most of the year, no amount of indoor heat is ever wasted. Granted, typical means of heating are probably much more efficient than a light-bulb, but still, it's not "wasted," as they claim.

And what about heat-lamps and such? Aren't those just extra-hot incandescent lights? Will those be banned if the ban does end up happening?

Supporters of the ban argue that switching to more-expensive bulbs and more-expensive fixtures will save money in the long-run through reduced electric bills and less-frequent replacement... But that won't always be the case. What if I have a fixture in a room that won't be there much longer anyway (upcoming plans for remodeling, for example). If I know that a particular fixture is going to be replaced in 2014, and CFLs don't work (dimmer, perhaps), how is it going to be more expensive to leave it in there for a few more years? Especially if it's a light that doesn't get used much... If I know that I will only ever need one light-bulb in a seldom-used fixture, why spend $5 when a $0.50 one will do? I've never had the bulb burn out in the hall-closet, because it's turned on maybe once a week for only a few seconds...

For the record, I'm not saying CFLs aren't better, I'm not saying we should keep using incandescents, I'm just saying that a flat-out ban on selling incandescent lights is going to come with unintended consequences and is an infringement on basic freedoms of choice. I don't mind the government trying to encourage people to be smart and do the right thing, but forcing it on us as if we're children who don't know any better, that's just wrong. (Even though most Americans seem to be no different than children who don't know any better anyway... But that's not my fault, and I shouldn't be punished for the ignorance of others.)

Nearly all the bulbs in our house are fluorescent and I started long before Al Gore was even vice president. I started out slow because the original were not that great but, as the years have passed they are better and more compact.

I do not think they would have got better if they were not in competition with standard bulbs. Ban the incandescent and the fluorescent win by default with no or little incentive to improve. Competition is good and I would like to see more LEDs in the mix.

By the way, there is now a dimmable fluorescent, it is not all that great but, at least they are trying.

Actually 3 words and an acronym:

LED
Lightbulbs
Free
Market

I too have been using CF bulbs for years. The early ones were indeed pretty bad. The newest ones are much better. I actually prefer the bluish light they provide. I never liked the yellow of normal incandescent bulbs.

OTOH, I've never seen the touted long life of CF bulbs. All of the ones I've installed, even the newest ones, used as recommended in exposed fixtures, have had shorter lives than the incandescents they replaced. Add to this the fact that they don't recommend that CF bulbs be used in enclosed fixtures which are about 70% of my ceiling fixtures. If you use them in enclosed fixtures their life is even shorter.

So, lets see CFs are hazardous waste, die sooner and cost 4+ times as much. Yeah, that's a good deal.

mom and my sister positively hate 'em, but they haven't changed out the ones I put in that are too high and hard to get to, heh heh heh.

for the outside lights and the garage and door opener bulbs, I'm waiting for the LED bulbs to come down into the $5 range from the $50-75 range per bulb. we have a kitchen fixture that needs bipin base halogen floods, and the fridge and oven and range hood can't take CFLs.

the garage and shed have T8 fluorescents with electronic ballasts in strip or shop lights.

and hey, if you hate mercury, don't go looking under your car hood at the courtesy light, or at your old thermostat. or neon lights downtown. or that pair of blinks-when-walking sneaks from 5 years ago. or the Baumanometer at the doctor's office. or the weather bureau office or cooperative observer's instrument shack.

or my turntable. I have a couple extra fillings of mercury for its tone arm, and the PC Police can't find it! bwaaaa-ha-haaaa! my dark side revealed!

Ok, I actually have one that someone gave me. I will not buy any CFL's until I hear of a rational disposal policy. I'm sure everyone who is disposing of them now takes them to a Hazardous Disposal site (using gas to get there) and pays to discard them. Not really practical to me.

I had to get two new bulbs on Monday, one was a new incandescent 3-way bulb (haven't seen 3-way CFLs) and a new CLF for outside. Only the CLF had a warning about disposing of it properly as it contained nasty stuff.

Um, yeah. Great selling point there.

I have nearly all my lights switched over to CFL's.
The newer ones switch on very quickly, and I've only had two fail. One was outside and died during an extreme (-15 degree) cold snap. The other I dropped while moving the lamp. It broke but I managed to clean it up without calling in a hazmat team.
I've kept incandescents in the bathroom, the stairs, the front porch motion-detector, and the hallway. Those lights get flipped on and off constantly.

I have no problems with the colors, I don't have any lights on dimmers, and I have no tightly enclosed fixtures.
I do, however, have a problem with CFL's being mandated. The market is already doing a good job lowering prices of bulbs and raising their quality. And their energy savings are only going to get more attractive.

Another choice you have for long lasting light bulbs are standard bulbs rated at 130v instead of 120v. They are readily available commercially, just not well known by consumers. They are used in restaurants, motels and the overhead traffic lights among other places. Ask at your hardware store or lighting store for 130v incandescent light bulbs. The price is roughly the same as standard incandescent bulbs.

I installed about 2 dozen 130v bulbs in the early 1980's and only one has not survived. That one failed because it was accidentally whacked with a plastic baseball bat.

[And on such topics as "Why is the server so slow", "what is the red splat for?, and, why do my postings often evaporate while I am still composing them?"]

Having a deep aversion to Hg toxicity (I lived in Santa Clara County for a long time) I was reluctant to try the CFL's (tube FL's are worth the risk, we have a lot, they give off light, and last a reasonable length of time at a reasonable cost) but because of latent pressure form leftist tree-huggers in or near my family I bought a bunch.

And found that they are placarded against use in the fixtures I need to use them in.

And that the expense of the batteries used in the flashlights used to tell if they are on or not was more than forecast.

And they don't last very long, except in fixtures where you really wish they would fails so you can replace them so you can see what you are doing at your desk.

Put dead CFLs on a neighbor's front step early in the morning.

ring doorbell and run.

Good thing you've already got a patent on it!

We have yet to have a CFL last longer than our incandescents. Not sure if it's our lamps (all of em???) or what, but CFL's don't have anywhere near the "much longer life" I've heard touted as a selling point.

In addition, I have yet to try a CFL that provides the quality of light that an incandescent does. That may come down to personal preference, which is fine. I'm just not happy that incandescents are on their way to banishment when I have yet to have a good experience with one.

Plus, despite all the above-mentioned sources of mercury in daily life, that doesn't mean I want the stuff in my house. I have kids, which equates to the occassional light bulb breaking. When there are special cleanup/disposal instructions to handle those situations, that doesn't give me warm fuzzies about using the things.

And yes, I try them every so often to see how things are improving. Much better, they are (Yoda? is that you?) than in the past, but I'm still not a fan.

Dimming an incandescent by 50% saves 40% electricity and extends bulb life 20 times. Most of the time 50% light level is adequate. When you really want to blast the house with light,(matching socks, finding contact lens on floor) buy the highest wattage light bulb(s) rated for the fixture and dim or nuke when you want. CFL's have nowhere the means to provide this flexibility. Incandescent lighting used with dimmers or a dimming system combined with 130V or hard use lamps will exceed lamp life of any CFL.

In wintertime I put in hundred watt bulbs. That lets me to turn the house heat down and still be comfortable in the room I'm in. Without the heating qualities of incandescent bulbs, I'll have to keep the entire house warmer and use a lot more natural gas.

Benjamin, CFLs certainly last far longer that incandescent bulbs, whether you flip them on and off or not. How long? I don't know -- I've been using CFLs for years, nearly 100% converted by about 2 years ago, and I have never yet had one go out. I have never had to change a CFL bulb. It's amazing. Technically they're suppose to die eventually but I'm not sure I believe it. That's the main reason I use them -- I have no idea what the real savings is on the electric bill, but having to change light bulbs is a real pet peeve of mine.

Didn't GE promise efficient incandescents by 2010? Those are not banned.

They could simply revisit the bill if they are not on the market by the time it kicks in in 2012.

While normal people say "CFLs are better now!" they still cause seizures in people with epilepsy and trigger migraines. I'm stockpiling incandescents for 2012 so I can avoid some debilitating headaches for an extra year or two.

I like to ask hippy-dippy anti-lightbulb bigots why they hate epileptics. They call me names, which suggests I'm close to the truth. :-D

Don't forget to put 'em in a paper bag and set it on fire first.

I bought a half a dozen or so CFLs recently and I hate them. The one I put up outside burned out in just a few months. The others provide bad light. Stay away.

Fluorescent light makes me nauseous and gives me headaches. When I worked in an office, I filled it with lamps and white Xmas lights and banned our fluorescent ceiling lights. My officemates were ok with that. Co-workers visited from all over the floor to bask in our lovely ambiance.

At home, I refuse to turn on any fluorescent overheads and use lamps, nightlights and candles instead. There is a lovely, warm glow throughout the house. CFLs are banned, not only because of the ugliness but on moral and political principles. Anything Algore and libs push, I refuse to use.

Actually, they've become hard to find but my main lightbulb purchases are the pink incandescents. Rather than looking pasty and blueish gray, everyone and everything looks luminous and rosy. The proprietor of my favorite lighting store refuses to use or sell CFLs either. They are offensive to anyone with taste in decor.

And that's the "Made In china" label. Fix that and then we'll talk. Until then, I'm buying a few hundred incandescents that aren't made in china to have for a stock.

I picked up some CFL's at Ikea recently with the intentions to do The Right Thing. I took them home, screwed one into my light socket, flipped the switch, then frowned. I called me wife over and turned on the light. She had the same reaction I had: that buzzing sound was awful. I took them all back to the store for a refund soon after.

I have converted my house as much as feasible to CFLs for the following reasons:

NOT because it makes me a better human being.

It DOES lessen my electric bill. It has gone down from $175/ month to about $125. (don't start to wonder if I did other things differently about my electric use; I went through that rigamarole already)

the new lights are vastly improved from the ancient 4 tube stick out of your lamp types. They have squiggly ones that work best and are great when you have a globe over your fixture and I actually prefer the light better. The ones they made to look like regular bulbs warm up slow...my wife likes this fact when she's in the bathroom first thing in the morning, but here again, I actually like the light better.

You don't have to replace them that often, or thus far, not at all. I use them especially in hard to change places and lights that I use most frequently and in some cases I still use incandescents...kind of like lighting triage, you know, priority. They work GREAT in the winter. I used to change out my security lights once a month, I have not touched these bulbs since I put them in...6 months ago.

Would you please stop maligning the Canadian Football League.

This whole subject reminds me of the abolitionists of the 19th century. Convinced of their morality, only the extreme immediate conclusions of their position was acceptable. This had the unfortunate consequence of the defenders of the status quo getting their back up defending their indefensible positions. A little persistent persuasion would have had a better more effective result.

Those who defend incandescents have good arguments and reasons for doing so. I will surmise that their arguments are more in defense of the way things were instead of contemplating the way things can be better simply because the alternative argument emanates from those they do not care for.

Well, I've had good luck with CFLs, and I've installed them in pretty much every fixture they can work in. I've found that they do have very improved longevity even in outdoor fixtures. The light quality doesn't bother me and the extra minute of warmup in cold weather doesn't seem to be a big drawback. I like the reduced need to replace bulbs (particularly in fixtures that are inconveniently located) and if you use alot of them the energy savings is noticeable. Also, I'm looking forward to improvements to LED technology in the future. I suppose I'm about as much of a fan of new lighting technology as you can be.

Having said all that, and despite this being a fairly trivial issue, the fact that a law has been passed mandating non-incandescent bulbs is deeply troubling to me. To vote in favor of such a law indicates that our lawmakers are incredibly technically ignorant and unbelievably disrespectful to their constituents. This is a very ominous sign. I think things are only going to get worse. Commenters above have already pretty well explained all the technical reasons why this is a bad law that will not help the environment, so there's no need to rehash.

Look, most of our elected representatives are always going to be lawyers. Engineers and scientists are just not the sort of people who usually have an interest in political office. When lawyers in practice run into technical issues they usually hire expert advisors. Why can't lawmakers do the same? This law is dumber than a box of hammers, and that is obvious immediately to anyone with any sense.

While a 130V light bulb used in a light fixture supplied with 120V will last very long,it will give much less light than the Watt rating says. I.e., it will use a lot more electricity for the amount of light produced. Also the light will be more yellow.

So, if you're concerned about energy use, or even cost, then the 130V light bulb is a bad deal!

-Henry

P.S. The cost of the extra electricity will exceed the savings due to longer life.

Some autistic kids (thankfully not my own two with Asperger's) are sensitive to fluorescents too. I really hate it when laws are made with only "normal" people in mind. As if we're not marginalized already by their shrinking definition of "normal".

CFLs are a huge waste of your time and money. Which is probably why the boxmart stores pushed them so hard. Instead of fluorescent, look at LEDs! They're common in flashlights right now. An LED with several light emitting diodes will generate a lot more light than a fluorescent, no wasted heat, no mercury. And they'll fit inside standard, enclosed light fixtures. Wait another few years and LED light bulbs for the home will be much cheaper than they are now, probably in the range of the CFL bulbs. As the demand and volume go up the price per unit will come down.

CFLs are also much noisier than incandescents, too! They have a constant buzz.

I've also heard anecdotal evidence that they make it harder for ADD people to focus....

And we have a BRAND NEW CFL in our kitchen (coldest room in the house) that still takes forever to turn on-- so I just leave it on all the time (I can't wait 15 minutes when I need light) instead of turning it off when I'm out of the room-- I really doubt there's an energy savings involved.

My husband does like the less frequent bulb changes, however.

Anything that dissuades people from using that RFI-emitting spawn of Satan, the varac dimmer, is all right in my book.

Lileks,

You are entirely too flippant about this incandescent light issue. Do you have any idea that ninety percent of the energy consumed by incandescent light bulbs is emitted as heat, heat which escapes into the atmosphere, slowly boils the globe, and catapults our planet into the apocaplypse? When you so casually flip that switch that energizes the light in a house festooned by incandescent bulbs, you are throwing the switch on mankind, you planet killer.

People today are divided into two camps: 1) Those who choose energy-efficient planet-friendly fluorescent lamps; or 2) Nazis. Obviously laws must be passed and strictly enforced so that people no longer can make reckless personal choices which endanger their neighbors, their society, and Mother Earth. It's that simple.

The current struggle over light mirrors the early civil rights struggle over Certs. Many dismissed it as a candy while we elite recognized it as a breath mint which must be administered to the masses for their own good. I can assure you that no matter how reactionary the Candy faction was, put an AK-47 to their head and they come promptly around to the Breath Mint position. Certs is a breath mint. End of story.

These culture wars are not to be fought by words alone, Lileks, in cute little editorials that provide a silly chuckle, but by organized propaganda which breaks the will of the weaker and less enlightened faction, by laws, by rigorous enforcement of the same, by guns and knives and, if need be, atom bombs.

I replaced most of the bulbs in my house almost exactly two years ago. I can't see any difference in the quality of the light and I've gotten used to the brief delay between flipping the switch and full lighting. The best part is that they are all still working. Not having to change bulbs is pretty cool. I'd use them for that even without the energy savings.

Maybe some wisecracker in the legislature should slip in another bill to ban CFLs on grounds that yet another, more promising technology is right around the corner!

http://www.emediawire.com/releases/source/luxim/emw561732.htm
"LUXIM Achieves World Leading White Light Source Efficacy: 144 Lumens per Watt Source Promises to Revolutionize Lighting"

. . . and the accompanying video: http://news.zdnet.com/2422-13568_22-192842.html

TO: James Lileks, et al.
RE: The Unintended Consequences

I had not thought of this until a recent article in my local newspaper.

The upshot being that if you have a lamp with a CFL bulb in it crash and break on your living room floor, your living room becomes what amounts to a HAZMAT incident site. It's the mercury.

Here's a link to my comments. It includes a link to the original article.

http://www.comensarations.info/index.php/weblog/turn_your_living_room_into_a_hazmat_incident_site/

'Enjoy'!

Chuck(le)
[Solving the problem [energy conservation], changes the problem [unnatural disasters in your own home....]

I too hate the fact that I need to change bulbs on a more frequent basis when I use incandescents; the two whole minutes it takes to do such a thing is going to crush my soul.

No, better that I take six hours out of my life to clean up a smashed CFL as well as the time, effort and money needed to replace the carpet on which the bulb shattered.

But at least I can hold my head high with all the other self-righteous prigs who have declared that not using CFL's is akin to slaughtering baby seals.

Bottom line, this is MY choice (as has been stated before). Good for you if you've changed your bulbs over, I don't judge anyone either way...much the same way I'd like not to be judged for my love of the incandescent bulb! It is an astute observation though that somewhere along the way being "green" became synonymous with being "good." I have no problem with trying to do things to make our world a better place but I have to personally BELIEVE that they will. Too many people get onto the green bandwagon and just blindly buy and advocate anything that calls itself green. Much of the "green" stuff on the market hasn't convinced me that it's any better than what's already out there plus it's always more expensive. If I truly believe in something then I'll buy it even if it is more expensive...fluorescents?---I'm not convinced and I may be selfish but I'M not going to be changing any of my carpet if a lightbulb breaks just to save half a kilowatt of energy. Plus anyone who is so convinced we're causing 100% of these "climate changes" (as global warming nomenclature has so quickly been re-worked in light of actual facts) needs a lesson in natural history...remember how the entire earth used to be covered in ICE?! Man, THAT was some global warming...I wonder if it was all from the carbon emissions of dinosaur farts...I bet that's why they're extinct...evil dinos.

Look, all I know is my plan is to stock up in case this lunacy DOES occur (I've already started buying 100 watters in bulk since they will be the first to go). Then I'm going to sit in my happy, yellow-lit home, and look out the windows at the blue world around me, and watch for the mercury mutants to run past, and pay my completely comparable to everyone else's electric bill until our government makes it illegal for me to even use the bulbs in my home and sends the Gestapo after me. Because that's where we are heading if this all goes down---no matter which side of the energy argument you are on it is asking for trouble to allow our government to make this decision. Their entire existence is for the purpose of representing US (in case anyone has forgotten) and that's not what they're doing. I don't recall being asked about this bill and if I want to be forced to use fluorescent bulbs, does anyone else? I don't want them to ban the poison hazardous-waste light bulbs either. Let people use what they want and quit infringing on what are, to me, quite basic rights.

Now you'll all have to excuse me, I need to go throw my television out and buy a high-def one...

Tantor wins the thread.

My husband, unbeknownst to me, picked up some flourescent bulbs and installed them around the house.

First impression: What the heck is wrong with the light bulbs?
The light was ghastly, when it finally got going. It was creepy light.

They didn't come on right away - not even dimly. Not very handy for the basement stairs or exterior porch light. Downright dangerous.

They make this awful high-pitched noise. Constantly. I suppose its something men aren't so sensitive to, being in the highest registers of human hearing. But I hear it...and its really unpleasant. Sometimes it's unbearable.

No Warmth! I mean, heat. The incandescent fixtures helped take chill of the basement, and corners of the living room and bedroom, and our pokey little bathrooms (mid century house) with no fancy heaty lamps of their own.

Then, coup de grace - they didn't last any longer than the incandescents.
They died earlier! At least, the ones I switched on for short periods, like in the closets ( the most inconvenient to change) the basement laundry area, and hallways. I was changing bulbs more frequently after giving in to using them even though I disliked them, and noticing the promised benefit of longevity was not panning out.

Then, I read that you are supposed to leave them on for at least 15 minutes at a time to get anywhere near the promised lifetime or efficiency of the CFLs.
Well, then.

And it turns out they are not safe for regular disposal, and toxic mercury vapor is released if they are broken.

AND the upside down use (in so many of my fixtures) is not safe. It requires a special bulb, or there is fire risk at worst, and dramatically shortened bulb life at least.

These bulbs don't live up to the hype of being green or clean, or efficient or long-lasting, and they are annoying as all get out.

These lights are a boondoggle fail. Epic fail.

The RFI or noise is usually the filament in the lamp vibrating, producing a sometimes audible "singing".
Hence, using a heavy duty/rough service, 130V or halogen will almost always eliminate this issue due to the additional supports that hold the filament, thereby reducing or eliminating vibration.

I have a mix of FL's and tungsten bulbs for many of the same reasons as previously mentioned. My wife had a stoke and the flicker of FL's cause her to suffer vertigo episodes. I have owned my present house for 25 years, of the 8 FL's in my home, 6 fixtures have failed, and the garage tubes only last about 2.5 years, vs the basement tubes which last about 7. As for tungsten bulbs, with the exception of the kitchen, the tungsten bulbs last at least 7 years and the attic bulbs are the same ones that were there when I moved in (they look as old as the house, 80+ years). Additionally, if you are cut by a FL, and the phosphorous that coats the inside the tubes gets in the wound, that cut will take a year or more to heal, it's nasty stuff. My town refuses to accept FL's or CFL's, where am I supposed to dump the dead ones? I have a very old house that I love, I have done everything possible, short of tearing it down and building a new one, to make it energy efficient, but after all is said and done, it is still a drafty old house. That said, all that heat from tungsten bulbs is 100% efficient, welcome heat, thank you very much! If you live where it snows, and snows and snows, you know what I mean.

I've got two CFLs outside my garage. Fourteen watts each (more than adequate) and they've been on all night, every night for over two years now. I've also got dimmable CFL floodlights in my recessed can lights. Not the most soothing light, but very economical. Slow warm-up still a factor.

Will a CFL work in my Easy-Bake Oven?

The way people talk about fluorescent bulbs in here makes me think nobody's ever actually used one.
Noise? No. Unless you're a dog, maybe. I've never heard one.
Mercury? Did you call the EPA when you dropped a thermometer or threw out your old thermostat? How about when you threw out or broke an old 4 foot fluorescent tube? CFLs use vastly less mercury than those things, and they're getting more efficient.
And, speaking as a migraine sufferer, I remain unconvinced of the claims that CFL's incapacitate epileptics, ADHD sufferers, autistics, etc.

It frankly sounds to me like pure reaction against the foolish mandates. I don't support them either, but don't blame the bulbs for idiocy of elected officials.

In the April edition of the Materials Research Society there is a review of the various forms of lighting (April, 2008, Volume 33, No. 4 beginning on pg 459)by Colin J. Humphreys of Cambridge University in the UK.

He notes that there are 130 million households in the U.S. with an average of 45 light bulbs in each. If all light bulbs were replaced by CFL's we would be placing 32 million tons of mercury in our homes. This mercury would eventually find its' way to land fills as there are no regulations or controls on CFL disposal yet.

Further, it is well known in the lighting community that when a CFL is treated as if it were an Edison bulb (e.g. switched on and off on a per use basis rather than left on for long periods) the life of the CFL can be reduced to 1000 hours or less (as opposed to the commonly quoted 10,000 hours).

I have been using CFLs since they first started selling them in the 80's and have about 75% of my house using them. (I'm a tightwad engineer, not a tree-hugger.) The new twisty ones are so much better than the old ones in light, warm up, etc. They don't last long in the bathrooms and closets, but longer in lights that are on more. I have been tossing the dead ones in the trash from the beginning, being unaware of their supposed disposal problems. Tossed another dead one yesterday as a matter of fact. I was pro-CFL until the govt decided to ban incandescents. Now I'm thinking of joining the hoarding group.

BTW, I have yet to see an LED light that puts out as much light at a regular bulb. Perusing Amazon.com, there were dozens on sale, but only a couple of them put out more light than a night light. And God-awfully expensive. Definitely not ready for prime time.

Perhaps you mean Rosey Grier?

I'm a stage lighting director. Thirty-one years now.

I've had two of them in my house. One on the back porch that takes forever to output better than a mini-Maglite in the winter, and one that was in my desk lamp before it blew up in a cloud of very dubious smoke.

I know what I'm looking at: I know what I like, and why. If I have to buy these things, I might end up shooting myself.

One of the biggest variables that determine whether you get the rated lifepan out of a CFL is the quality of your local power. If you have a lot of power drops, brownouts, and noise/crap on the line, it can really kill these things while incans won't even notice; the same thing that makes them non-dimmable, makes them vulnerable to spiky power.

If you have a UPS for your computer that warns on power spikes, as I do, and it keeps chirping warnings for no apparent reason, that's a big hint that your power isn't very clean. I moved from Sherman Oaks CA, which gets clean power from LADWP and my UPS units didn't so much as cough once --- to Newbury Park, land of SoCal Edison, where they go off in clusters throughout the week (including five one-second dropouts while I was booking my plane flight home to Canada for Christmas, online -- didn't lose a thing. UPS's rock.)

I'll not be surprised if the CFL's I have don't last as long here as they do in L.A.

But really, those CFLs are horrible. See the article in the Weekly Standard titled "A Nation of Dim Bulbs" (cited here).

Grow lights. If it is good for plants, it is good for us.

TO: Will
RE: Mercury Issues of CFLs

"The way people talk about fluorescent bulbs in here makes me think nobody's ever actually used one....

Mercury? Did you call the EPA when you dropped a thermometer or threw out your old thermostat?" -- Will

Never done it. I use the digital kind.

"How about when you threw out or broke an old 4 foot fluorescent tube?"-- Will

They didn't break in the fixture. Nor in removal. And kids and cats don't usually get that high up on the ceiling in my household.

However, table lamps are more easily accessible by such.

RE: Additional Information

Just came back from a meeting of my local Area Council Of Governments. [Note: There on a different matter.] While there I talked with a member of the local Public Health Department.

They acknowledge the mercury issue in CFLs. The mercury release from a broken bulb IS an issue. Otherwise, why would the PHD's be counselling people to 'recycle' the bulbs?

She thought the idea by whatzizname (above) about putting them on a [unpleasant] neighbors front door step, ringing the doorbell and running was 'cute'....she's well aware of the laws relating to contact with a HazMat material; 'You touch it and the problem is YOURS.' She went so far as to say you even LOOK at it and it's yours.

Hope that helps....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[If you think the problem is bad now....just wait till they—the Government—fix it.]

Besides mercury (and likely more lead as solder than normal bulbs unless you want to jack the price up and use non-lead solder), CFLs have a HUGE "miniaturized" circuit board of an electronic power supply built into the base. When a bulb fails, the base often melts. I love CFLs for my hanging kitchen pot/pan holder with two lights in it since high wattage incandescent acted like sun lamps on my head when I was cooking! I also like them in our old antique Tiffany globe ceiling lamp, since indeed they last longer, except for one thing: some only last a month, while the rest have lasted for over two years. Since they are inside of orange globes, their color temperature doesn't matter.

However, traditional light bulbs, now all made overseas, are one of the most efficient, low-energy industrial processes around. There are less than a dozen parts, none of them needing more than a tiny amount of glass, some brass, and a bit of lead. The machines that make them are wonders to behold each of maybe three needed are no bigger than an SUV. They don't need lead, but it's cheap, so is still used. Disposal? Just put it in a paper bag indeed, and get out a hammer. It will become no bigger than the bag itself, crumpled up. Try that with a CFL, while holding your breath to avoid mercury VAPORS.

Recycling of incandescents makes no sense, since there's almost nothing there! Now try recycling a CFL. Unlike lead, mercury is volatile, so becomes air pollution that turns infants into retards. And how do you recycle a tomato-sized injection molded, glued-shut power supply, chock full of electronic components as heavy as a cell phone?

Finally, how do we replace all our halogen desk lamps or track lighting with CFLs? We cant! So all that existing stuff has to be thrown away? Including the tens of millions of $25 touchier floor lamps that college kids bought the last decade or two? The only option would be very expensive high power LEDs, which indeed last nearly forever, at a cost of $125 a bulb, which wont necessarily fit into your halogen fixture anyway.

I once hooked a dimmer to a normal CFL (since the dimmable ones didn't come in high wattage), and the highest pitch scream came out of the bulbs imaginable. The dimmer was already installed, but even on full, they screamed away. By the way, normal dimmers don't cause much radio interference. Much of their cost involves legislated inclusion of a quite large ferrite doughnut wrapped with thick wire.

I have to fess up to two things. I am a lamp designer. Second, I don't include the expensive ferrite core inductor in my dimmers, so I'm at fault for your lousy AM radio reception. Many of my products are lamps which use dimmed down bulbs by the dozens to create "New Years Eve Ball" type of chandeliers, etc., so the banning of normal bulbs will put me, and a lot of halogen light designers, right out of business, since there's nothing very aesthetic about a dimmable CFL. I'll have to switch to shinning LEDs at Swarovsky crystals, I'm afraid, hoping people are into random rainbows all over their room.

Also, killing incandescents will likely end research into efficient incandescents, ones that use microarrays of nanowires or nanotubes to emit more light, while still fitting looking like a normal light bulb.

So now, instead of adding a plant fertilizer to the air, known as CO2, we add mercury and spend huge amounts of energy to make the little mercury bombs in the first place? I see. Then we get even dumber due to the mercury and outlaw anything except pedal powered interior lighting. That will solve the obesity problem too, which, by the way began EXACTLY when the government set out to demonize fat in our diets:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2008/02/21/MNJMV5STE.DTL&o=0

My guess is that since most light bulbs are now made overseas (for instance the Westinghouse brand is now just and only that, a brand, that has been sold as a trademark to a foreign company), so there's no lobby, but that there's a huge lobby for American CFL patent holders.

Well put, Nik. Indeed, are not CFL's all manufactured in China where, to put it mildly, the environmental implications of their manufacture are ignored? Another feel good product that solves nothing.

The whole bulb mania is only there to confirm that in America you never outgrow your need for BS.

I switched my reading lamp to CFL's. Shortly thereafter I started coming down with headaches. This bothered me because I normally only get at most 1 headache or so a year but I was getting them every day. Switched back to incandescent and end of headaches. There seems to be a glare from the CFL's that give me the headaches. I will stick with incandescents for now until they get that headache problem solved.

On these new LED lamps I am reading about, is there any comment on headaches from them? That may be the solution to the problem.

I've bought several of CFLs and mostly like them.

However, only two (porch lights) of the fixtures in my entire house are upright. I've stuck them upside-down, sideways, and in enclosed fixtures. They die.

When I bought a new fixture with five bulbs, all hanging upside down, I put CFLs in it. Within three months one was dead. That means that one of them must last 10 years to meet the average. I'm hoping.

My basement has dimmable halogen track lighting recessed into the joists - no CFL solution there.

I'm mostly happy with them, but this mandate is just stupid. How do these bozos keep getting elected? There must be a lot of people who are happy with this sort of thing. How do we change their minds (or move them to Boulder, CO)?

... traditional light bulbs, now all made overseas, ...

Last I knew, there was a light bulb factory in Ohio (GE) and one in Pennsylvania (Sylvania).

Are those closed?

Just because you males are deaf doesn't mean the buzz and whine of CFLs don't bother us females. We're more likely to experience the headaches and vague nausea as well as depression from the gray-green, gloomy light. I have to have warm light or I feel sick. Interior lighting is intended to mimic the sun. Incandescents are directional like sunlight; CFLs are diffuse and artificial-feeling. (I do also like halogens, I admit.)

The complaints about disposal are very valid. I'm not dealing with anything requiring a spacesuit and permit to get rid of. And I HAVE dealt with broken fluorescent tubes and what looks like piles of coke all over the floor. CFLs are worse.

Not only is there no upside to the things, they're pushed by nannystate socialist hysterics. 'Nuff said. I'm hoarding incandescents, too. Buy online; I do.

http://www.sylvania.com/AboutUs/Careers/Locations/TowandaPennsylvania/

They are still there. A $.25 lamp cannot be made for much less overseas. The amount room they take up in a shipping container and all the miles travelled causing breakage makes it even less cost effective.

With the lamp placed base up, heat from the lamp can affect the life of the bulb and the socket for the compacts. Not all defects are lamp related, the quality of the socket and a godd connection between the lamp and socket is just as important.

The law will only ban the sale of incandescent lights, there's nothing against owning them. I'm also pretty sure it doesn't forbid buying them from elsewhere and shipping them here.

So, the only thing this law will accomplish is more hassle for buying old-fashion incandescents, and a sudden boom in online light-bulb sales, especially in nearby areas of Canada and Mexico. In fact, I'm even considering starting up an online light-bulb store right over the Canadian border. Or maybe I'll just hoard the bulbs within the states and sell them on the black market.

We tried them in outdoor motion detectors. Awful. Slow on, never bright.

I have a lovely crystal chandelier which will be rendered hideous by cfls. So I am hoarding for that.

I have many ceiling fans, all of which have dimmers and mount the bulbs downward facing. Are the fans which regulate the heat in my home to be rendered dark?

Why isn't this left to the market?

The push for fluorescents is silly. Sure, incandescents are inefficient and passé, but fluorescents have serious flaws. The light is cold and unflattering. They emit buzzing noises, and if dropped are toxic.

However, LEDs, which use 5-10% of the electricity of incandescents, are on the way. They already dominate the indicator light, automobile light and Xmas light markets. They are getting every closer to a white LED that can fight into the average lamp. I already have 2 LED nightlights, and they change colors!

Don`t call me an energy hog because I hate fluorescents. Don`t pass half-baked laws enshrining a flawed technology when a superior one is nearly here. As soon as affordable, reliable LED lights are at my hardware store, I`ll buy them and reduce my light bill by 95%.

they can pry my incandescent from my cold dead hands...

I'm not sure that those citizens who TRY to do what seems right, in their own small venues and arenas (like home lighting) are such an affront. The critics who scorn them offer mostly condescension to veil their defensiveness, sometimes outright scorn. We'll probably, if we're lucky enough to get there, someday look back on these interim technologies as shortsighted and fraught with unintended consequences. But should we berate folks who are attempting the best that they know as of now? Outlawing filaments seems premature to me, though.

Peg, I think you meant to say nauseated. You just said that fluorescent lights cause you to make other people sick, which i do not think was your intent

There are dimmable fluorescent ballasts on the market, not as a retrofit item. The color turns cold as you dim them though.

It's obvious that the author and those posters who echo his complaint about "moralizing" environmentalists are too young to remember the conservation efforts during WW II. Wasting energy or desperately needed raw materials was both a sin and a crime. Of course, we were at war then...

I use CFLs in about half the fixtures/lamps in my home, and they work fine. I think I have had one burn out after a couple of years of use, all the rest are going strong over several years of use. Light quality is different than incandescent bulbs, but is not unpleasant (I've grown fond of the light quality). No buzzing noises. They do take a little while to ramp up to full light, but that really only takes about 30~60 seconds, which seems acceptable. It helps that prices have dropped in price (I sometimes find them on clearance at Target), and that the bulbs have gotten smaller. That's probably my main complaint -- they sometimes don't fit in all lamps or fixtures.

moom

Exactly! The first thing my teen daughter said when I told her about this dumb law was "Does that mean there will be a black market in light bulbs?" "Probably," I said. "Cool!" said she.

Well, at least she understands a free market.

In the meantime we keep stocking up.

For many years, doctors have warned that florescent lights can cause vision problems (glaucoma for one). I've yet to hear anyone confirm that problem has been fixed.

Also, try to get a CFL to work when the temp is -20 F.
Probably good for California, but try it in Minnesota.

And that mercury thing is going to mushroom into a real problem, but thats been glossed over too.

Sorry, but CFL's are a fast fix without much thought as too the problems they create over the problem they 'fix'.

“People today are divided into two camps: 1) Those who choose energy-efficient planet-friendly fluorescent lamps; or 2) Nazis.”

Whoa. I’m an epileptic and an environmentalist. I can’t use CFLs after having two seizures in houses that have recently completely converted from incandescent bulbs (I can see virtually all kinds of fluorescent lights, especially CFLs, flickering like strobe lights, and obviously putting an epileptic under a strobe light is *not* a good idea), nor can I be in such a home for more than an hour or so without feeling dizzy and ill.

Guess that makes me a Nazi...? Even though I’ve been converting my own house slowly over to LEDs, which are even more energy-efficient and planet friendly than fluorescents! I have absolutely no problem with the light from LEDs, but they are expensive. The price is the only thing keeping me from completely switching over more quickly.

What kind of person are you to deal in such absolutes? I have debated with several crazies who speak like you and mean every word of it, so I can't tell if you're serious or if you post in jest.

By the way, since I have suffered health issues from CFLs, I hope that Will (“I remain unconvinced of the claims that CFL's incapacitate epileptics, ADHD sufferers, autistics, etc.”) will change his mind. I hope this bill won’t pass, or else I’ll have to drop a whole lot of money to either hoard incandescents or complete my LED conversion, as will my parents, other family members, and good friends who want to have me over their homes for any length of time.