I guess department stores don't have much a future if I am the typical consumer - I don't know if I am or not. Here in AZ whenever I go into Dillards or Macy's I always end up getting irritated. The clothing is crammed onto the racks so it's difficult to see what's what. I don't like having to track down a sales clerk so I can buy something. In summary, the department stores are crammed with too much stuff and always understaffed.

The exception to this is of course Nordstrum.

I cannot imagine how people can shop for clothing online or from catalogs. What if you get it and it doesn't fit right, or doesn't look as good on you as you thought it would? I'd much rather know that right away.

I don't shop at Macy's--or Nordstrom, or Bloomingdales--simply because I'm a cheapskate. *grin* I do shop wherever there is clothing that is reasonably priced and actually looks good on me. Currently, that's pretty much JCPenney, Sears, and Christopher & Banks. Target and Kohl's used to be in that list, but Target hasn't carried anything nice in years, and Kohl's recently stopped carrying much in the way of career separates. *sigh*

hint, hint.

I really do think you are onto something with the local connection. People like having a local connection with stores and the ones Macy's rebadged lost all of their local flavor... People in Chicaco are _still_ mad about Marshall Field's demise.

Yes, when I lived in Mpls back in the 80's, I loved Daytons.

I think the demise of the local brand certainly had a big effect on retail. Here in the Philadelphia area we had two big local stores - Wanamakers and Strawbridge and Clothier, and they were fine places to shop. Not just that they had everything, but the salespeople were trained to look after the customers and the store had the atmosphere of being in business to serve its clientele. Both have gone the way of all flesh, or brick-and-mortar, or whatever -- bought out by national chains, and the results are big, impersonal stores that don't care whether you shop there or not.
As for buying clothes online, I know my sizes and buy either online or off the rack in the size I want (if I can find it), and if it doesn't fit the fit isn't usually too far off. I buy from the same places, and if the size isn't really the size I don't buy from them anymore.

Does anyone remember Richway, Zare, or Upton's?

How about Davidson's?

Davidson's changed their name some time back in the mid-to-late-80s. What did they change to? The answer is above.

A lot of department stores are closing because they can't compete with the Great Blue Wal With The Yellow Smiling Face of China.

If that's not politically incorrect, I don't know what is.

PatrickRsGhost

You could have kept the name Dayton's and the imminent result would be the same. The department store concept of the 20th Century has been dying since the 1960s with downtowns housing giant department stores slowly eroding away by store closings (and less comparison shopping and competition) and in store department closings (such as appliances and electronics). The regional malls built to answer expanding suburbs temporarily buoyed the department stores with renewed competition with the major anchor concept but those stores were hollow images of the old.

In the early 60s Wal-Mart and Target, then called and still called "discount" stores ushered in a new era of retailing. They were standalone and economical to build, fast to build, and flexibly located near the customer. They may have started out as discount but they grew to be the new department store selling just the essentials. Discount? Not really. You cannot buy a digital camera there any cheaper than at a boutique camera store but then again a Target will not stock and sell the high end professional digital camera either.

So then came along the national chain boutique stores specializing in answering all your needs in one specific category. They were set up to sell you anything and everything you would want in that category. The traditional department store like Dayton's, since they spawned Target, price pointed themselves above so as to not cannibalize their discount store or lower their image. No longer giant stores they could not possibly stock and compete with all the boutique stores. Caught in the middle, they could not broadly satisfy customers as they once did.

Downtowns eroded and regional malls eroded. Retailers of all sizes emulated the standalone concept advantages. Unfortunately, that has now ushered in the concept of the lifestyle centers with false small town streets that force us to slog through cold, heat, slush, snow and rain. Planners think that is a great idea. They think putting people on the streets might even save Macy's downtown. Fat chance.

Davydd
porktenderloinsandwich.com

My biggest issue with Macy's and Dillard's is the prices. I cannot, and will not, pay $80 for a pair of pants or a sweater. Occasionally I can find something on a clearance rack for 75% off, and that will bring the item into my price range. I also don't appreciate the attitudes of a lot of the clerks--they make me feel like I don't deserve to be shopping in their hallowed store, just because I didn't get dolled up in my best frock to go to the mall. Since I dress up for work five days a week, Saturday is usually my one chance to shlub around, and I'm not going to put on finery to go shopping. (Shlub around in jeans or a velour warm-up suit, that is, not PJ pants or anything.) So, I just don't go there.

I do think that JC Penney and Sears are pretty reasonable, and they have great sales. We have one mammoth mall here that I just loathe and despise, but I will endure it for a sale at Sears or Penney's.

Here in Florida, my wife still slips and calls it Burdines. She wears a suit everyday and used to spend a lot at Burdines. Not so much at Macy's.

Marshall Fields folded because no one shopped there. The stores lost money for the last 15 years. Chicago may have great memories of Marshall Fields but if the complainers were honest about it I bet they did not spend any money there. Sure loved looking at the window display during the holidays but the Marshall Fields they loved was from their childhood. Grow up 2200 people lost their jobs and who knows Macy's could just close all the old Marshall Fields stores. Would that make all of you Macy's bashers happy.

I'm lived near NYC in the late 50's early 60's. Macy's was the low end store in town. Macy's was the Donaldsons of NYC.

Had Daytons been taken over by Nordstroms, it may have survived. But just watch - you'll see racks jammed with cheap clothes. Much fewer clerks, with much less knowldege. Downtown Macy's is doomed.

The same thing happend to Sak's. They kept the name, and gutted the rest.

Yes James, I've noticed this also.

I was in _ _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blank, it's called Macy's today). I'm looking for some medium sized quality sport shirts.

The clerk approaches and says: "Can I help you?".

I repsond: "Yes, I'm looking for some sport shirts size Medium, and I can't find any."

We are standing in front of a fairly large display of tables, and a wall unit in back of that.

After about 5 minutes, the clerk says: "It appears we don't have any Mediums." He doesn't think anything of it. He is clueless. Is this a high end shopping experience?

There are a ton of XXL's. I can hear that flushing sound now!

I'm in the minority, but I love department stores. Nice, quiet, well-stocked department stores. But I seldom go to Macy's anymore. The problem is service. It's just so bad. The last straw was trying to Christmas shop there. Monty Python couldn't have come up with that scene.

Sometimes I wonder if all this talk about "the changing face of retail" isn't actually coming from corporate headquarter drones who don't care about operations anyway. Seriously, they'll just get another job elsewhere if everything fails. "Changing trends" is just another excuse for failure. You can see it on a micro level sometimes. A neighborhood coffeeshop closed a while back. The counter help there was slow and inept at best and, at worst, so rude it was actually amusing. Too tragically hip to wait on you, you know. And gradually, you couldn't count on getting decent coffee or fresh food. But when they closed down, they blamed it on the fact that a chain coffeeshop opened across the street.

Anyway, I shop online now. But I do really worry about what will become of downtown when Macy's closes.

Macy's has Small v-neck T-shirts that fit snugly. Kohl's hasn't had them for years now, and I've looked at more than one location for them, so Macy's gets my money for those. I also must agree that its gotten harder to find medium shirts, who wears XXL anyway?

I hate clothes shopping. I don't care what store you're talking about. Even if they have my size, nothing ever fits right. Apparently I am horribly ill-proportioned. It's a wonder people don't flee in terror when I hobble down the street.

Not to mention that everything in Macy's goes on extreme sale eventually. I find it hard to justify spending $80 today when I *know* the item will be on clearance in 2 months for $19.99. Except that by the time two months passes, I'm no longer looking for a bathing suit, a parka, sandals, whatever.

So I shop as little as possible overall, but most of it is done online or when I'm in Target buying something else. If I buy something online and it doesn't fit, I simply send it back. Most online retailers offer free returns.

It's a pain in the neck, yes, but still less painful than trudging through the mall, pawing through overstuffed and disorganized racks, fighting the mess in the dressing room, glancing at my suddenly voracious cellulite under the florescent lighting, hunting down an underpaid and indifferent sales clerk (or avoiding an overzealous one), and overpaying for poorly-constructed garments...all to find out the very same thing I learn when I shop online. Nothing fits me.

We still have a regional department store chain based here in NC. Belk's learned the local roots name lesson early on. The early expansion plan seemed to be: acquire an existing store then keep the name with Belk added in front of it. The only exception was here in Raleigh. Karl Hudson must have been a good negotiator because when they acquired Hudson's they renamed it Hudson Belk instead of the usual pattern ie. Belk Leggett. Even locations that were built after the acquisition were named Hudson Belk. Too bad that others don't make that kind of nod to the old store.

Keith

I haven’t shopped at Macy’s for years. They don’t carry my sizes. The buyers don’t believe people of my particular dimensions exist in sufficient quantities, ...

I need to buy tall sizes; they are scarcer than anything else. Just for reference, the 'big and tall' section of the store usually means the 'big section'. On the rare occasions when my sizes exist they cost more and don't go on sale as much.

Years ago I started buying my clothes from catalogs that stock tall sizes; other than the rare purchase of a suit, I buy virtually nothing in mall stores.

You want to talk scarce, try finding extra short sizes. I'm male, 5' 2", and believe me there are about 3 stores in the country - none near me - that stock extra shorts. EVERY pair of slacks I buy has to have the legs shortened. Either that, or I need to find a good torture chamber that still has a rack I could borrow...

My mother shopped Saturdays religiously at Woodward & Lothrop, Garfinckel's, Hecht's, Kann's, Lansburgh's and the Palais Royal. To be frank, none of these department stores were much to write home about, Woodies probably being the best of the lot. Once I was taken to see/hear the Wanamaker's organ recital at Christmas in Philly--now that was an experience. Nothing approached that in D.C. in the 50s. What killed downtown department stores in D.C. (IMHO) was (a) mediocrity and (b) the 1968 riots.

For any males in the audience, there's still Brooks Brothers, which seems to have retained its quality over the years. For suits, I heartily recommend Mr. Ned's in New York City (Manhattan). This is a quality cut-make-and-trim operation and you can get a well-fitted suit for around $800.00.

Hint to males: if you want to advance in your career, always appear at work wearing your best, even if your wardrobe's only a couple of suits and one pair of shoes. A lot of the bargain clothing (Men's Warehouse) fits and drapes poorly and unfortunately looks like bargain duds on you. (If you do not have to dress for work, find a job that requires that you dress like an adult, unless you want to be a computer drone for the rest of your days.)

When Macy's took away Marshall Field's - that was it for me. I am from Chicago, live in NC but when I went to Chicago last year on pleasure trip - I didn't even bother to visit the store on State Street. In the past - it was like visiting Mecca. But no more. In fact - I boycott Macy's here which used to be Hecht's. Macy's is boring. I hate red.

I was a loyal Marshall Fields customer for 20 years: They carried quality dress clothing and casual wear. I had trouble finding quality suits and slacks in my size anywhere else in Chicago, but I could rely on finding them at Fields. Sadly, Macy's has not stocked my size since 4 months after the switchover, and much of their stock is not as good as what Fields carried.

It is a shame that "Hudson's" is gone. At least you did not feel like you were walking through Target. You did not have to use price checking machines. Which is what they have setup in the "top designer" areas of the store.

In the childrens department you could find age appropriate clothing rather than cheaply made and cheap looking clothing for the young kids. Trying to make them look like older teens or 20 year olds at 3 to 10 years of age.

Plus it is so disorganized that you feel like you are shopping at TJ Max.

I grew up back east and as a child and teen remember shopping at Macey's and it was quality and service. I am very discouraged. I have attempted to shop at supposedly what is the top location in Michigan, but it is just terrible. 12 trips and I give up.

Plus whatever happened to the customer is right. I saw a sales clerk yelling at a customer.

Thanks for the article. I agree with you.

P.S. As far as your size goes it is poor planning on the buyers part because even if they do have the size it is not the quality you are looking for.

They used to say in Philly--
"Meet me at the Iggle."
Meaning the bronze eagle in the center court of Wanamaker's.
The Iggles are of course also an NFL team.
(flood of nostalgic memories.)
Man, I miss Philly. And I miss hot pretzels with mustard, and Pat's steaks, and hoagies, and tomato pies.
"I left my heart in San Francisco --
but my stomach is in Philadephia."

I work as a sales associate at a department store. I just want to say that I am personally very sorry for the bad experiences some of you mentioned having with other clerks. I will tell you though that staffing is a big problem at our store. There are sometimes only one or two associates in a department and if you can't find us chances are we're off helping another customer or stuck doing some chore because if management catches us standing behind a register we get reprimanded. Believe me... it does not make any of us happy to give bad service (at least in my store) we're all doing the best we can. So... please... try to understand that we have absolutely no control over most of the issues that you as a customer have. It's certainly not our choice to be the only associate available to you, It's not my choice what sizes we stock or what products we carry. When something is wrong my heart just sinks because I know it's wrong and I have to give you some kind of excuse. Our Buyers didn't order enough mediums and we sold out of them... I don't know when the next shipment comes (they don't tell us) and even if I did there's no way of knowing what will be on it (apparently no one knows what's on a truck until we get it and start unloading) so what may look like ineptitude is really just not knowing. Our store honestly doesn't make it very easy to serve you in a way that I myself would like to be served so... please just keep it in mind... most of us are doing the best we can and I am really sorry when we don't have things.

Complaining to us doesn't help either because the management doesn't listen to the complaints that we pass along. The best way to get results is to go to the store website printed at the bottom of the receipt, fill out the survey and post comments (be specific). The stores get graded on those results and those numbers go to corporate so if they start slipping it'll get someone's attention and maybe they'll actually do something about it.

As for missing the "good old days" at our favorite stores. I'm from Philadelphia and to this day I still won't shop at Kohl's because they replaced all the Clovers.