Reaction: The 35W Bridge Disaster

A final note: I’ve driven across this bridge every few days for thirty years. There are bridges, and there are bridges; this one had the most magnificent view of downtown available, and it’s a miracle I never rear-ended anyone while gawking at the skyline, the old Stone Bridge, the Mississippi. You always felt proud to be here when you crossed that bridge, pleased to live in such a beautiful place. Didn’t matter if it was summer twilight or hard cold winter noon - Minneapolis always seemed to be standing at attention, posing for a formal portrait . We’ll have that view again – but it’ll take a generation before it’s no longer tinged with regret and remembrance.

We’ll pass on the usual Good Morning message today. It’s not a good morning.   

11:18 PM A structural engineer reacts to the bridge’s last evaluation here. File away for future reference.

10:43 PM Death toll is now seven. Strib video report here.

10:30 More photos from disparate sources. (Via a Fark thread, which has the usual mix of personal stories, technical information, compassion, and egregious vile snark.)

10:21 PM I’m listening to a story on the news about a man who survived the fall – then ran to help the kids on the bus. I’d guess the fellow never considered what he might do in such a situation. Never thought about it much. Who would? But then you find yourself on a bridge that’s crashed down into the Mississippi, and you’re struggling with the seat belt buckle. It works , but your hands feel thick. You’re alive – which doesn’t seem that odd, really, you’ve always been alive, so this is just different, but you have strange thoughts about insurance and a mad swirl of panic and there’s blood in your hair but you can stand – and then you see a school bus. So you go to the bus. Of course you go the bus.

Most of us would. It’s a remarkable instinct that wells up and kicks in, and it’s something you never expected to experience. As someone said about humans: We’re at our best when things are worst.

Would you have run to the bus? I'll answer for you: yes.

10:04 PM There is good news. Or at least news that could have been worse. Thunderstorms were supposed to roll over the area tonight, but we’ve been spared that apocalyptic aspect so far. Give a thought for the people who would have been working the rescue effort even if monsoons and lightning had struck the disaster site.

9:57 PM KSTP is reporting that family members of missing loved ones are showing up at the site, distraught. You can only imagine their emotions – raw panic and sick despair grappling for the upper hand. The Holiday Inn Metrodome has been set up as a meeting ground for families looking for info. (Note to anyone who thinks this would be a grand time for a prank call: there's a special ring of hell waiting for you. Think again.)

9:46 PM “Melissa Hughes and her three-month-old child are okay after a truck fell on their red vehicle.” Video and interview here.

9:43 PM Last medical update for the night, Hennepin County Medical Center says: no additional deaths at HCMC. Twenty-eight patients, six are in critical condition. HCMC is one of several hospitals handling the wounded.

9:24 PM Local blog eyewitness account. (via Captain Ed.)

9:15 PM Six dead.

Governor holding a press conference right now; says the bridge was inspected last year; not scheduled for overhaul until 2020. No one is ascribing the collapse to the construction, but am I the only person to think that it might be a factor, somehow? It's odd how the mind wants explanations like that; they help make sense of the unbelievable, because we simply don't want to think that things like this happen for reasons that have been decades in the making.

Tomorrow’s Twins stadium groundbreaking cancelled. Game also cancelled.

8:50 PM Streaming video coverage from KARE11 here. Wikipedia page with bridge history here.

8:37 PM Photo gallery here. Unbelievable. The eighth photo appears to show two points of collapse.

8:30 PM: Early video here. Local stations' websites may be overloaded; this appears to be a mirror of the KSTP footage.

7:30 PM Horrible. This has to rank with the old A Mill explosion as an event that defines a time; it’s hard to think of a modern-time disaster this large, this stunning. Questions:

Did you see it happen? If so, the Strib wants to hear your story. Click here. If you're coming back from the scene with observations, post below.

Did you believe the news when you heard it? My wife called me to see where I was, and the words she said didn’t make sense. The brain has a curious response to these things – you understand exactly what you’ve just heard; you know all the words, and they were put in an order that formed a sentence, but surely you heard wrong.

What do you tell your kids? Mine was shaken by the news, because in the mind of a seven-year old, bridges don’t collapse. I imagine she’ll wonder about the other bridges we travel. She’s not alone.

What next? The disaster took out the ability to go straight through town from the south metro to the north - all that traffic will have to somewhere, and routing it through downtown or 280 will cause interminable delays for however long it takes to replace the bridge.

Any opinions on the media coverage? It's been good, as far as I can tell - serious and straight-forward. We don't know why yet, but why can wait.

Finally: Sixty children on the bus. Sixty children alive. There’s chance, and there’s miracles. Take your choice.


Posted in   James_Lileks's blog | login to post comments

The magnitude of this

The magnitude of this disaster is only just beginning to occur to me. I have driven over that bridge dozens of times this summer, and was going to that area again tonight. No more.


The first thing I thought was...

...were you okay?

Don't let it go to your head or anything, but you are kinda the only person I know in the Minneapolis-St.Paul area. The second was to ID the semi-truck that was crunched into the bridge just ahead of the school bus, since my Dad is a long haul trucker and he would have just left Oregon on Monday for parts unknown.

Coverage seems to be about the same (I was watching Fox until recently) as any major disaster type event - they basically tell you everything they know in 5 minutes and then repeat that every 10 minutes will inane guessing to fill in the space.

They were good about bringing new camera angles in as they had them.

Whoever decided that interviewing the mom w/3 mo. old - who wasn't even there but was brought there by Dad - was a good idea should be looking for a new job. Even the New York office cut them off as soon as they figured out that this was an inane interview.


I confess...

...the first thing I thought of when I saw this on the news was, is the Lileks family OK? What a horrible, horrible thing. Here are wishes and prayers from Philadelphia for everyone affected by this. And thank you for posting on this blog so that we know you and your family are safe.


Glad you are safe

The only person I know in Minneapolis and we don't actually know each other so I thought I would check here. MSNBC seems to have the best helicopter footage, but it's getting repetetive after an hour. Trucks are on fire again.


You are in our prayers

There is nothing else I can say.

Robert Van Dame
Batavia, IL


Glad to see you are ok

Folks over at LGF were worried for you in comments.


Glad to see

You posting on this. I admit, I was concerned. Do you think it had anything to do with the work that was being done on the bridge? And what about the safety report regarding how it would be unsuitable for Light Rail Transit?


The coverage is the usual lame-stream media slush

Is there a person in the Mpls/St. Paul area who DOESN'T cross that bridge on at least a semi-regular basis? My wife and I live in south Minneapolis, and she was teaching a course last week up in White Bear Lake, taking 35W (and this bridge) to get there, crossing it at just about this time. She chose to not teach this session.

This is a structural engineering failure of catastrophic proportions.

On the other hand, the people in the news media can once again be trusted not to be able to tell an arched-truss from a medical device. It's not like this town doesn't have some structural engineers they could talk to about the bridge design.

I AM glad that they're not speculating as to cause. That can wait until the engineering forensics are done. Now is a time for rescuing the victims, treating the injured, and offering thanks to whatever source you choose (God, gods, the laws of physics, random chance) that so many lived through a horrific experience.


Mpls is in our thoughts and prayers...

Like the other commenters here, the first thought I had was for the Lileks family - I don't know anyone else there. I logged onto Buzz a while ago hoping to see a post, and am glad to finally see one. This disaster is just unimaginable - the video on TV shows me the carnage, but the mind has a hard time grasping it. I'll be keeping the victims and their families in my thoughts and prayers.


This is not a good day

I didn't know about it until 7:30 this evening, as I'd been watching a video tape. When I turned off the VCR, the TV was on CNN. I saw the picture, and then saw the text that said what affiliate it was coming from. KARE.

Coherent thought pretty much stopped.

Was their graphic right about the time of the collapse? 6:05 central? I have coworkers who leave work at 6:00--for all I know, one of them could have been on that bridge. I just don't *know.*

Between this, and distressing family news I got earlier this evening, I haven't been able to stop crying.


Glad to hear you and your

Glad to hear you and your family are OK.

I'm watching Fox and just can't believe what my eyes are seeing.


My first thought was

My first thought was 'terrorism', the photos are unbelievable. I did think of you James, and your family, even though I live in Arizona and do not have any personal connection to you. I have been a big fan of your website for a year or more. I am happy you and your family are safe, but for the people that were on that bridge my prayers go out to them...


Oh no...

Your wife wasn't the only one who wondered where you were!

How horrible. : ( Bridges scare me as it is, this is tragic. Last I heard there were three confirmed fatalities.

Thank God those children are safe.

This brings back memories of the freeway collapse from the Loma Prieta earthquake in 1989.

[shiver]


Bridge collapse

I hold Governor Pawlenty personally responsible for the bridge collapse on Interstate 35W. His record of vetoing transportation funding bills goes to the heart of this disaster. His administration has under funded infrastructure such has bridges and highways for much to long and we are now paying the price of his desire to ruin this state by cutting taxes.

He should be held criminally responsible for this. I hope he carries the guilt of his pandering to the taxpayers league and the republican tax cutting cohorts for the rest of his life.

He has failed the citizens of this state and we will all be forced to deal with his incompetence and reckless disregard to the State of Minnesota for many years to come.


Bridge

My heart hurts for my city and everyone affected. Am in shock. Was shaking until I contacted all of my loved ones. Am lucky I can account for them all.


Glad you are okay!

Here we all are, from all over the US and the first person we think of is you....

My heart is in my throat - this is so sad. Having lived in the Bay Area during the Loma Prieta earthquake, this brings back memories of the Cypress structure collapse [shiver].

Thank god the kids are okay - I don't even want to let myself think about the alternative.


To Anonymous...

...now is not the time for that.

Though I'm probably as liberal as you are, this is just not the time. Looking at the pictures of the disaster, seeing the road I had driven on just two days ago, makes me physically ill, and I wonder what it would have happened if I had been on that bridge the moment it went. Please save the politics for later.


re: Bridge collapse

OK, "anonymous": I don't live in Minnesota, so I know less than nothing about local politics. But I think it's way too early to try to use this tragedy as partisan political fodder.

What awful news. Best wishes, take care, and God bless everyone --

~Lee


What a relief

I'm glad to hear the Lileks clan is doing fine, albeit a bit shaken up over the ordeal. Like others have stated here, you and Garrison Keillor are the only two people I know of by name from Minn, and only you from Mpls. I live in Georgia, and my heart has been pounding non-stop. I figured it might have been structural problems that caused the collapse, not to mention the construction being done at the time.

One of the first thoughts that crossed my mind was the collapse of the Silver Bridge over the Ohio River back in the 1970s or 1980s, which was the basis of the movie "The Mothman Prophecies" starring Richard Gere. According to several accounts, people claimed to have experienced strange events, such as sightings, dreams, etc. days and weeks leading up to that terrible night.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the victims of this senseless, inexcusable tragedy. Construction safety inspectors should have known the bridge was unsafe. It should have been closed off completely while under reconstruction, and detours should have been set up.


Can't believe the whole span collapsed

When I first heard the news I thought perhaps one segment of the bridge had buckled. I couldn't imagine that the entire bridge, from one side to the other, had collapsed. One of the worst disasters in state history no doubt. Prayers for the families...


Twin Cities In Our Hearts

James, checked your site as soon as I saw the news. Glad to hear all is well with your family, I've followed the Bleat for years.

We are praying for the safety of the victims and crews.


Glad to hear you're okay.

Glad to hear you're okay.

To anon,

Blaming the governor seems rash. Whatever he vetoed, it's hardly likely it led to a full collapse of a bridge. Something else was wrong, and I'm sure that will be determined.


Arizona is with you.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you way out here in Arizona! God bless all the victims, their families and friends. What a horrible event.

Jon, ExurbanLeague.com


First up, glad you're OK. I

First up, glad you're OK. I heard about this when my sister (teaches at the U) called, "just to let you know we're OK." My prayers for the victims.

Now a gripe: Why the heck does the Strib require Flash to view a photo gallery? WCCO doesn't.


Sending prayers...

I'm sending thoughts and prayers to all of those touched by this disaster. When I first saw the news twenty minutes ago I felt compelled to check in on one of the two people I "know" in Minneapolis. I'm glad you're covering this.


Astounding

It really is hard to wrap your head around what's happened. It is so impressive though that people who were in the area at the time came to help the victims. It's always touching to know there are so many good people that are willing to help others.
Our prayers are for everyone touched by this tragedy and their families.


Thank goodness

Thank goodness you are okay, James! Like everyone else, you were the first person I thought of. I came here right after I heard the news, and have been checking back. Thanks for posting to let us know you and yours are ok. I hope that the rescue efforts can continue through the night and that rain doesn't cause more problems. What a difficult and precarious location for everyone to be stranded in!


Words not making sense

I know what you mean about the words not making sense. On 9/11 when I turned on the radio and heard the words, I thought something was wrong with my brain, that I was misunderstanding things.

My prayers are with Minneapolis tonight.


Regarding construction:

Regarding construction: that's what I thought, too. As I type this, they're discussing the possibility of terrorism. My immediate reaction: I don't think so.


Nice jerk

How can you in this short time try to lay blame on our Pawlenty?

If transportation funding is lacking - why in the hell was it being resurfaced?


Excellent coverage James

Nice job of moving the story forward here on Buzz.

One thing I can't find on the web: how deep is the Mississippi at the point of the collapse?


Wow

Mlps is in my thoughts and prayers.

I thought of the time when the Sunshine Skyway bridge collapsed - I know the story because for years when the family visited Florida, we traveled on its successor, and we saw the fishing piers that used to be the beginnings of the old bridge. Just amazing.


My thoughts and prayers for everyone up there.

I made some calls, and none of my people appear to have been involved. They're all on the East side.

But it's not good, for sure. Why it happened will be interesting, to say the least, but for now, let us worry about the survivors, and the families of those who didn't make it.

I'm not optimistic for the toll staying under 3 figures, just from what I'm hearing. And the part about there may be a School Bus in the river? Good Lord, I hope and pray that's not so.

Bad. Just real bad.


Prayers from Houston

Praying ... hard.

As for the sixty innocent souls saved today: I'll believe in miracles, thank you very much.


on construction and government neglect

got a stepson who was on the bridge repair project a couple months ago, and said that the bridge was so rotten it should not be repaired, it should be replaced. they had to vacuum concrete out, it was too crummy to chip out.

which gets to governmental neglect. you can tag Ventura and possibly Carlson with neglecting highway funding as well as Pawlenty. there's easily 20 years of highway work that this state is behind on, and what is being done is not designed for future loads, it's catch-up work. and badly overdue.

let's wait for the official forensic studies a few months out to start pegging bricks at culprits... but let's have that special legislative session NOW, governor, and let's get done what hasn't been done yet on your watch... or your predecessors... or his.

I keep hearing folks say "you don't see things like this every day in Minnesota."

gang, you will. everything on the north end of 100 was so mealy when I was going underneath it 15 years ago I expected cars to drop through the decks into my pickup bed. and job one hasn't been done up there yet, either.

you WILL be seeing major bridges drop like rocks every day now for a long time.

35W was the first. and this is going to hork up traffic for 1-1/2 to 2 years easy. remember, we don't make steel beams in the US any more. we have to ship 'em from China. they didn't have enough steel four years ago to do both the Edgerton and LaBore Road bridges in the 35E "unweave the weave" project, and the world economy is not bad enough yet so they have all the steel we need lying around in a yard someplace. somebody else's project in Stumpjumper Junction is going to get prioritized down the list to fix this one.


Hi Mary. Andrew from

Hi Mary. Andrew from Minneapolis here. The bridge that was deemed unsafe for light rail is the Washington Avenue bridge (which carries local street traffic on the lower deck and pedestrians and bicycles on the upper deck), and not the 35W bridge over the Mississippi River that collapsed.

Also, the construction work being conducted on the 35W bridge appeared to be surface restructuring. The last time I drove over it, traffic on the 35W bridge had narrowed from four lanes in each direction to two lanes in each direction as a result of that surface work. Cars on the bridge at that time most likely were traveling slowly in near bumper-to-bumper traffic.


US Bridge safety...

From what I've heard (from a federal DOT official), the dirty little secret is how most of our bridges are not up to snuff. I wonder if that will come out after this or not.


The guy who blamed this on

The guy who blamed this on the guv is a fool. Might as well blame Kevin Mchale.

Here is Mndot's Transportation Plan:
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/metro/tsp/pdfs/final_2008_2030_tsp.pdf

If you read carefully, you'll see this entry:

Br 9340 I-35W Mississippi River Bridge-Minneapolis $112,000,000 Replace Bridge 2015-2023 2015-2023 1-B I35W $112,000,000

The bridge wasn't set to be replaced for at least 7 more years. Nobody has discussed replacing it sooner.

Until evidence suggests otherwise, this should be treated the same way we think of earthquakes and tornados, not anybody's fault.


LIke a lot of other people

LIke a lot of other people here -- I saw the news and went to buzz.mn first. I wouldn't know James Lileks if he was in the room, but I've been a big fan of his Web work for a long time. (I can attribute many laughter-induced headaches to Lileks.) I discovered tonight that he and Minneapolis are co-branded in my mind.

I have to commend KARE-TV's coverage. I watched the live stream for about an hour tonight, and it was very well done. I also found WCCO Radio very informative.

Of course, any coverage of this kind of event is only about five minutes of information repeated until something new comes in -- but what else CAN they do?

Thanks to the Web, we can watch local coverage of local breaking news. It's almost always superior to national coverage.


Rio Mississippi

First heard of the story on Albuquerque's KKOB from a live ABC feed that a bridge over the subject river had "collapsed end to end." My vision of the Mississippi is more of the St. Louis or Memphis type, i.e. over a mile of collapse, with thousands in rush-hour crawling as the whole thing just disintegrated. Funny mind trick. Bad as it is (six known dead so far and millions and millions of dollars in economic impact), it's not as bad as I envisioned via radio theatre. Thank God, gods, chance, etc. And I, too, thought of the Lileks clan, as I understand he's near-downtown Minneapolis resident.


Bridge Collapse

You hit the nail right on the head.... I also wonder driving over that bridge every other day and every weekend on how they could "peel off" top layer of a bridge and replace it without anything happening to it.
Makes you wonder....


Saw Wolf Blitzer on CNN

Saw Wolf Blitzer on CNN tonight. He was terrible.

CNN was running a feed from a Mpls station and Norm Coleman was on, then after a short time Blitzer cut away and LOUDLY had to point for what seemed like an eternity that SENATOR NORM COLEMAN had been on CNN live with him EARLIER.

You know what, Wolf? Who CARES!

Can't you park your ego for 2 seconds?

This is why I hate CNN.


Rescue Personnel - Remarkable People

It always amazes, and reassures me, that police, fire, dive and EMT crews are able to form some kind of an organized effort and go into unstable situations such as these for rescue and recovery. Their presense of mind, range of skill and the ability to improvise is astounding. God bless them and the citizens who responded.


Politics

Regarding the comments about the Governor...

You're right about it not being the time for politics but this administration has balanced the budget without raising taxes by under-funding education and transportation. I can't believe I'm saying this at this time but it honestly was my second thought after some type of freak collision of a boat or train.


Wow -- All this sufferring

Wow -- All this sufferring and you bring politics to it. Sad, very sad.


Thanks for letting us know...

...that you and yours are ok.

When I first heard of the disaster, I immediately checked the buzz...and those first few moments of silence were nerve-wracking!

Thanks for sharing your perspective and the reports from the witnesses.

Our thoughts and prayers are with all of the victims of the tragedy.

Liz in VA


Pawlenty resonsible?

Personally I think George W. Bush and Dick Cheny are responsible. Who else would do such a dasterdly deed. After all they blew up the leves in New Orleans, manufactured the 911 disaster along with the Jews, lied about wmd in Iraq, invented aids, burnt the library at Alexandria, sacked Rome, helped at Hitlers Birth, assisted in the assasinations of both Kennedys and Lincoln, etc. etc.. Need
I say more it's sooo obvious who is responsible....Bush!


!-35W bridge collaps

Thanks for the ongoing coverage...I live in Delaware, but I'm from Minnesota. Two of my kids live in the Minneapolis area. I have been able to get ahold of one of them, but not the other. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone!


I work at Fairview southdale and I was called for orange alert

We were called in for critical patients. We did not get any patients 3 hours post incident.My team of respiratory therapists had 14 of 22 staff onsite prepared for anything. The all clear was called at about 9pm. We train for these events but never really think these things will happen. This is so tragic. Tell your family and friends how much they mean to you. Hug the dog and the kids. Random, unthinkable, a sad reality.
MR


re: Politics; Too weary to argue

Oh, save it.


Re: Media Coverage

It didn't take long (about four hours) for a story to run (on KARE 11) about the gas tax being too low.


I heard from my other

I heard from my other daughter...she's safe!!


James Lileks will get some

James Lileks will get some good exposure from this, maybe sell some books, so there's some good to be had out of all this...


Statically Indeterminate

I'm an engineer, but not a civil engineer.

Here's what I think:

Each span of the bridge is independent of the rest. If one fails, the rest should stand. I also see all that green paint on the trusses. Many engineers don't believe in painting bridges, cause the paint hides the strain cracks.

Let me digress. Did you ever bend a coat hanger, and notice that you can't bend it back to the exact same position? That is called strain hardening. It happens to all metals, including steel I beams (from the continued flexing of the loads of cars/trucks).

It's my guess the bridge was in trouble several years ago. Possibly there were strain cracks at the welds (90 degree joints of the beams).

So there were lateral forces in the bridge. However the bridge decking (concrete road surface) kept the bridge stable - it was wegeded between the two river banks. It was never supposed to be like this. When the contractors removed a significant part of the decking, the bridge went south!

IMO the south end of the bridge looks like it collapsed first. What's really fortunate is the steel superstructre held the decking together. It just slid south, and laid down.

I thought the N/S lanes were two independent bridges. IMO they should have been.

Again, just my best guess.


re: Bridge Collapse (Anonymous #2?)

"I also wonder driving over that bridge every other day and every weekend on how they could "peel off" top layer of a bridge and replace it without anything happening to it.
Makes you wonder...."

Yeah, especially since they've been doing stuff like that every day, all over the country, for decades... Makes you wonder whether maybe THEY ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THEY"RE DOING.

For crying out loud, can we please lay off the conspiracy theories at least until sunrise?


Exposure

Anon: I'd much rather people donated the price of a book to the Red Cross. The phone number is (651) 291-4680.


Anonymous losers...

Typical. I'm guessing if you crap your pants you blame the governor or Bush somehow. I mean dear God, a 40 year old bridge collapses and you blame the governor. You people think the current elected executives are omnipotent beings that control everything. You're nothing but a big baby.


Re: Politics

If you can't believe you're saying it, then *shut up*.

Unless you have actual information that the bridge was underfunded, that the inspection from last year found problems that would have been fixed had taxes been higher, then take your bloodless abuse of a dire situation and shove it wherever you put your sense of basic decency.


Rescue workers

I'm with you, Jan.

Of course my first thoughts concerned my family, and waiting for the phone lines to let me through was crummy. All okay, thank the Lord.

My second thought was about the rescue workers. Can you imagine getting in a boat and motoring up to that twisted hulk ... and then getting ON it? That takes courage.

This, btw, was the lead story on every Austin, TX news program.

As for coverage ... I'd be happy, indeed, if you removed some of the nasty comments on this thread, particularly the one about our host.


no, James, you're not alone

no, James, you're not alone in thinking the construction played a part. I am an architect (not an engineer) who happened to cross southbound at about 3:PM. I noticed a very large stockpile of sand/gravel and thought to myself, "gawd, thats a lot of weight to sit on a bridge". Not claiming any insight, just a thought that crossed my head.

As for news coverage, I can't comment on local news (way too much 'cat saved from a tree' -- so I only watch national news). But CNN was AWFUL! Not only hinting at terrorism, but just so basically wrong! "Construction was done last night" - uhm, day and night for a month or more. "Located Northeast of Minneapolis" - technically correct when speaking of downtown, but made it seem like it was a suburban or ex-urban bridge.

And my favorite - from a supposed person who had "just" crossed - "Uhm, I think its two lanes each direction and one was open". This while video rolled - showing clearly that it was an eight lane bridge!

Not CNN's finest moment (and I'm a bleeding heart liberal).


Our prayers are with Mpls

As I was flipping through channels tonight and heard the words "bridge collapse", my first thought was an earthquake in CA. There are no words to convey the horror when I realized that the pile of steel and cement I saw on the TV was just 90 miles away. It doesn't seem real yet, and has a bit of that 9/11 feel to it. So far this hasn't affected anyone I know, thank goodness, but there are so many who will be touched in some way and my prayers go out to all of them.

Relieved to know you and your family are okay, James.


tragedy

James,
This is a little off topic but have you read The Road? I just finished it. Tragedy; nuclear annihilation. But with love prevailing. Have you read it? I'm curious about your thoughts. Good vs. Evil; I pray to God I would jump in to save the kids in the bus. I will be searching the news to read all about the instances, no matter how small, of goodness. And love. And God.
Whitney


http://www.mhuot.net/gallery/

http://www.mhuot.net/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=12402

Some photos that a friend of my cousin's took...from the #9 bridge downriver...


Resurfacing a Bridge

When a bridge is resurfaced and the top layer "peeled off" and replaced, please understand that this layer is not part of the support structure.

It is just the top 4" or so that provides a wearable surface for the traffic. The actual support structure is beneath this layer and is not generally affected as the top surface wears from the traffic.

Just my $0.02 as an engineer.


Just wishing hope and

Just wishing hope and prayers to the families from our family in Pensacola, FL
May God be with you!
Patti


Just checking...

I live in Virginia and I know it's a terrible generalization but anytime I hear Minnesota I think Lileks.

I just had to check and see that Jimmy-Boy is OK.

Cold comfort though. The families of 7 others (so far) won't be getting that kind of news.

Hearts and prayers to the families of all touched by the disaster.


wramblin wreck - This

wramblin wreck -

This construction seemed to be MUCH more than 4" of surfacing. Its been going on for over a month. I drove it this morning and it appeared to be at least 12" of material removed, and I noticed one worker who's upper torso was only visible - presumably standing on some structure below.....


Bridge collapse

I will include all of you in my prayers tonight and at Mass tomorrow. For those who perished: "Eternal rest grant unto them O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon them and may their souls through the mercy of God rest in peace. Amen."

Signe (in Pennsylvania)


Bridge Collapse

I feel, as all of us who have driven over that bridge either daily or often do, thankfulness that I was not driving on the bridge at that time. My thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families, the people who were victims themselves and helped others to safety, the witnesses who helped other to safety. And my utmost gratitude to all of the professionals who risked their lives: firefighters, paramedics, EMT's, police, troopers, deputies. I pray that the missing rescue worker is found. I pray that the missing construction worker is found. I pray the numbers don't climb much higher, but I fear that they will.

But I have read all of the comments, and obviously a lot of people either have no regard for any of these people, or are finding a good political soap box here. It reminds me of the movie "The American President" where Michael Douglas plays the role of the president. In a speech he said of his opponent: "We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it."

Within an hour of this tragedy, there were so many "telling us" who to blame for it. Can't that wait until after the funerals?


A Very Sad Night

When I heard the news, of course this is the first place I checked (even before heading to the television). As you have noted that you mostly work from home James, it was your wife and her homeward commute that I was thinking of (hoping she didn't travel in that direction).

My heart goes out to all the people effected by this. It is difficult to wrap my mind around the enormity. All the people not to mention the bridge itself.

But once again we can look to the rescue workers doing a heroic job in such dangerous conditions. They are amazing... I can't even think of enough good words to describe their actions.

Oh, and the school bus (the whole reason I decided to comment). When I saw that on the bridge I think my heart stopped for a moment. I'm so very glad they're okay. As for running to help them - who even has to stop and think about such a thing?


So why did the bridge fall

So why did the bridge fall down? It was not because it was brand new.


Prayers for all

James, very glad to know you are safe and that when I turned on the news at 11 EDT I could go to buzz.mn and see what was going on.

My prayers for all the families of the victims and for all the brave rescue workers and other first responders.

Morgan in Jax, FL


From a Distance

When I heard the news on my way home tonight, far away in Idaho, I thought primarily of my son who lives in Richfield. It took three hours to reach him and find out he was nowhere near the scene. I feel lucky; lots of people realize their good fortune tonight. And many, it's sad to realize, are getting news that is not good.

From this remove, it's like 9-11. The causes are different, but the feeling is the same: disbelief. The feeling that the event is cinemagraphic, rather than actual. Reel, rather than real. Then, the growing realization that a familiar place is no longer extant.

Like many of you, I've driven the bridge a thousand times. Like everyone, I feel the disaster keenly: I feel it in an undermining of my faith in routine, in everyday securities. And I feel it in a sense of helplessness. I wish I could help, but that's unlikely.


I concur. The only thing

I concur. The only thing Pawlenty did tonight was to try to save his ass and mention all the politicians that he was engaging in the rush to figure out what went wrong. He was pushing Rybak out of the camera to comment.


The strib really should

The strib really should suspend their login regime for a few days, it's especially annoying right now...


Unfortunately politics never

Unfortunately politics never leave. There is no rest in political battles. If you wish to change the situation one must act and take advantage of any situation possible. This holds true for conservatives and liberals alike and the news is happy for tragedy as well. The question about transportation has remained in the news for 10 years and if we cannot get funding with this in the news it will never happen. Politicians only remember this when they are blasted over and over again by mail, email and phone calls from the center, from grandma, grandpa, etc.


Disaster

I am shocked and saddened, and my prayers are with all affected by this disaster...as well as for those who think this is an opportunity to score points, political or otherwise.


The baby was Pawlenty who

The baby was Pawlenty who had went his pants thinking that his VP chances could go south. He made sure to get his face in front of the camera and present himself as a leader. It has been a long time he has served as governor.


And to think, I used to drive on that bridge every day

I lived in Minneapolis in the late 1990s, and lived off of Exit 18 on I-35W, the first exit over the Mississippi River. Every work day, I would get on the highway there (while cursing the rush hour traffic) and would come home the same way. Needless to say, when I heard the news, I was in a state of shock, and brought me back to 10 years ago when I didn't even think twice about going over the Mississippi River and back every day.


Pawlenty may not be

Pawlenty may not be responsible but he has not helped state transportation and he was crying in his pillow thinking that when the Republican Convention is in town, he will have the bridge (built or unbuilt) in the background as his ability to govern and show that government works; unlike with Bush administration where Bush shows quite well how government does not work and should not exist.


Re: So why did the bridge fall

They obviously don't know that yet.

However, the bridge would not have been *new* no matter what taxes were in place, and it is unbelievably crass to say that it could have been prevented by (pet political cause here) while there are still folks down there.

Was there a shortage of basic human decency or something?


Is the Semi Truck Driver Okay?

I get home from work a little early and I turn on the TV - about 6:30 PM or so. I never watch TV before 9 or 9:30 at night. I'm always too busy. But the Mrs. is out shopping (she never watches TV and disapproves of the whole idea) and I figure I'll just flick on a Simpson's rerun on the sly.
As I flip through the channels, they are showing some kind of disaster on all of the local news. What?? Some bridge has fallen down? Been bombed? What?....
In Minneapolis?!! I-35W?!! What the ****?

I sat there watching the news people trying to get good pictures and trying to figure out what was happening before the Rescue people even got there.
It was surreal. It felt like 9/11.
And, I watched that semi burn.
And, what I kept on thinking and what I still want to know - is that guy all right? Did he make it?
The school bus is right next to the semi and I hoped the kids were okay, but that truck was really burning...
I hope the driver made it.
My daughter called me from New York City and told me she's never driving over a bridge again...
I think about driving home or to work - listening to Hugh Hewitt on the radio, and suddenly the whole damn world collapses under my car and everything is destroyed. If I'm a casualty, I'm afraid that I'm thinking that G-d has a lot of explaining to do...

I hope the driver is okay.


peripheral note about media landscape...

Just a peripheral note about the changing media landscape...

I live in NYC -- no personal connection to MN. I saw a headline about a bridge collapse in Minneapolis, and I didn't go to CNN or the NY Times -- I went straight to Lileks.com, and followed that to buzz.mn. Made me think about how things have changed...


35W Bridge Collapse should not be blamed on anyone at this point

I personally feel that finger pointing this early in the game is not needed. Even if Pawlenty had voted for the transportation bill, it was MNDOT that pretty much makes the calls on what roads/highways need the most work. Apparently they did not see it necessary to make repairs. However, I am not blaming MNDOT either. People at this point need to take it in as a very unfortunate tragedy and wait the results of an investigation.


Here's the Failure Mode

This photo:

http://www.startribune.com/10136/gallery/1338445.html

The cleanly-broken butt ends of the box beams show that they failed in tension. Similar failures are seen in aircraft where there are a lot of rivets in the structure. The metal cracks between the rivets. Seeing three of them in one picture with exactly the same failure is the telltale sign to me.

I'm not a structural engineer, but the crack detection design I sent out for fabrication this week might have a better chance of being used now.


Glad you and your family are

Glad you and your family are okay, James.


Failure Mode

Aw, shoot. I pasted in a link in my previous post that doesn't go to the photo I referred to, just the slideshow. The picture to look at is captioned "The wreckage on the west end of the bridge." and was taken by Jeff Wheeler of the Star Tribune.


well, that didn't take long.

well, that didn't take long. less than two hours into this catastrophe, all the victims families probably not even fully yet notified, and the only thing some anonymous (read cowardly) left wing knucklehead can think to say is "tax cutting Republicans are criminals". what a heartless bloviating asshat.

my prayers are w/ the nine departed, their stunned & grieving families & friends, & w/ the shocked citizens of mpls & America.

Thanks, and an observation...

First of all, thanks to the commenter who corrected me on the safety report regarding the bridge. I'm glad to hear it was another bridge, because if it was the same, and they could have avoided it....my rage would be endless.

And an observation. It's interesting how some can be so overly concerned with terrorist attacks, when some of the greatest tragedies can be caused by something as mundane as possible "structural fatigue".


My sentiments

My sentiments exactly.
(First thing that came to mind when I heard the news was, "Lileks! Is he ok?")

Ariun in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia


I too first thought of James

My immediate response was also to check the Bleat; the comments from James made me thankful he and his family were OK.


James, thanks for posting...

...as quickly as you did regarding the welfare of you and your family. Like many others here, you were the first one I thought of when I read the news on another site, and I refreshed buzz.mn quite a few times until your initial post came up. Glad you're OK, and my heart goes out to those who weren't as lucky.


The Blame Game

Maybe Amy Klobuchar is responsible for the failure of the bridge- she should have known about bridge safety when she was Hennepin County prosecutor. Yeah, that's it, blame it on the Democrats. Better yet, Kevin Garnett- he accepts a trade to Boston and everything collapses.
C'mon people, this appears to be a tragic, unforeseeable accident. Our task now is to stop affixing blame for this horrific accident and start fixing a whole bunch of at-risk bridges.
Everybody's ridden on a scary stretch of road at some point in their life. The 35W bridge did not give off a scary vibe. It was a beautiful, modern-looking work of architecture.
There used to be an old, wooden bridge spanning Lake Superior's Saint Louis Bay- the Arrowhead Bridge. It was as long (or longer) than the 35W span. Every time I drove over it, boards would pop and wiggle. I asked my dad (born in 1934) when it was built. He said "Before my time. Ask your grandfather." I asked Gramps the same question and got the same response: "It was built before my time, too." My grandpa was born in 1897.
That bridge never fell. Bridges NEVER fail- until yesterday.
Unless I hear otherwise, this was nobody's fault.


Terrifying

I live in NJ and wasn't watching or listening to any news last night, so I just heard about it this morning. How terrifying it must have been, and how fortunate that a relatively small number of people died. Of course, any loss of life is awful for the families involved, but when you consider how many cars were on the bridge when it went down (along with 60 kids on a schoolbus), it's a miracle there weren't more deaths.

This kind of thing gets my pulse racing every time I drive into and out of NYC. The 59th Street (Queensboro) Bridge has a local lane that literally hangs off the side of the bridge. I'm "sure" it's safe, but the few times I've driven it, one lane hanging 300 feet above the East River, it's taken everything in me to keep the car going and not just curl up in a ball and tremble in fear. Now I hear about this, and I think I'll stick with tunnels.

May God be with the injured, and with the families who have lost loved ones.


thanks for your updates

James -- considering I think of you as my blogfather, inspiring me in 2001 to start a journal online, I immediately thought of you and how you'd view this situation. I didn't know about buzz.mn last night but would have sat here clicking refresh to check on your updates.

I'm glad you are okay. Like the previous poster, you're the only one I 'know' in the twin cities ... in a very loose confederation sort of way.

We're sorrowful for the ones who were lost and injured, and yes -- I would have gotten on the bus too to help the kids. Thank you for answering for me.

I look forward to checking in with you for stories as the day progresses at work.


a hint...

A little birdy told me:

Talk to the mn dot.

Ask about the sensors they've had on the bridge for some time now.

Ask about why they've been concerned about the sensor readings.


Thanks, James

Thought about you & yours FIRST, I have family there but they're not close, will call my aunt who keeps in touch with them today. Glad to know y'all are ok, you have many prayers & best wishes coming from NE Florida.

My only comment on 'cause' is that this is probably the result of accepting the lowest bid...then the contractor & construction outfits skimp on material because of the costs. Horrible shameful practice, but it happens all the time.

Good luck to all in the area - be patient with yourselves & others, this is a trauma you won't get past in a few days.


Failure Mode?

The cleanly-broken butt ends of the box beams show that they failed in tension.

OK, but how do you know whether they "failed in tension" before the rest of the bridge, or after the center section they were connected to fell into the river due to something else?


Bridge failure started prior to 2001

This bridge was looked at in detail as early as 2001:
http://www.lrrb.org/pdf/200110.pdf

Sadly, it sounds like they knew a situation could theoretically occur where the road surface that was being worked on would be the last thing keeping the bridge from collapsing (page 14 of 89).

They had problems getting all the data to agree with the theoretical truss calculations unless they refigured that part of the load was already being transferred to the slab (composite action) due to strain in the main truss. This is covered in their conclusions (page 86 of 89). After looking at the data again and with 20/20 hindsight, we might learn that when data does not entirely make sense, we might need more data and a better understanding of what assumption we have wrong.

Originally, the deck/slab/concrete road bed was not intended to provide stabilization should the steel trusses and arch be overloaded or begin to twist. Unfortunately, this was observed in 2001 and the ramifications not understood. "Out of plane" bending in a truss member means that calculations based on the truss holding its shape no longer apply. Was the construction crew told that the road bed they were cutting on and replacing might be the only thing holding the two main trusses in alignment? NO. They were not told that the road bed had become structurally loaded due to deflection of the truss structure. This appears to be the case from looking at the data in the 2001 report. To get all the numbers to make sense load wise, the assumption had to be made that the road bed was already taking load. Whenever modulus gradients are high, or when you have metal trusses that flex but concrete that does not, the stiffer material may take on significantly more load in a complex and dynamic manner.

Look closely at all the images:

http://www.slide.com/r/8OpawY45yT_-Zwh_8heDXfJmSW5zruEh?previous_view=TICKER&previous_action=TICKER_ITEM_CLICK&ciid=504403158301786930

http://www.startribune.com/10136/gallery/1338445.html

On the last link, navigate to the image with the cement truck just visible on the left side. Notice the gap between the center divider and how it appears to widen from the background to the fore ground. The right half of the bridge in this image did not fall straight down but instead twisted and pulled outwards away from the other main arch of the bridge. Did the lateral trusses "unzip" allowing the two arches to separate? This can be seen in other images where it is obvious that the bridge twisted so hard toward the upstream side that it pulled itself and the other arch off of the concrete pillars toward the upstream side. This created enough tension on the far side of the bridge that the joints broke in the cantilever pivot above the concrete pillars. Someone already correctly observed that the failure at the opposite end of the bridge is clearly tension. When the joints let go, that section slammed back down. From the bent over angle of these concrete pillars, it is clear the pillars were loaded and pulled over. Would the failure be localized if they had held? Hard to say…

What is interesting in looking at the far side tensile failure: it is a clean break and provides an excellent cross section of the bridge structure. Find an image of this partially intact cross section and you will see the key components of the structure. There are the two main arches with a lateral truss and the road bed is cantilevered out past the arches on both sides.

What would happen if the lateral member that goes all the way out to the furthest outside edge remains intact, while some part of the lateral truss fails in a manner allowing the arch to "push" up through the road bed? You might get something like what you see in the images from the twisted side taken from the upstream perspective. Can you find where the road bed is actually folded in half long wise?

http://www.startribune.com/10136/gallery/1338445.html

The 8th image shows an overhead of the outside upstream two lanes folded underneath. Somewhere between there and the partially submerged cement mixer lay the answers as to what gave way.

The technical structural failure, whatever it may be, is not as important as the success of the emergency services, individuals and the country as a whole in addressing the issue. Does our country need to spend more money on engineering and infrastructure improvements? Is there political and/or financial pressures that allowed this to happen without someone putting their foot down and saying, "We need to replace a few bridges in this country right now"?


Cause and Effect

I think I have a few theories as to what caused the bridge collapse. Putting politics and other items aside, it's clearly a structural issue.

The bridge collapsed in two locations: Right over the Mississippi River, and right over a train track. Right there are two causes to the bridge's weakness.

For the river section, the concrete supports have been submerged in water for the better part of 40 years. Countless numbers of nautical vessels travel down that stretch of river on any given day. This can include large icebreakers, barges, or even small tug boats or privately owned motor boats. Some of these boats, especially the barges, could have bumped into the supports over time. They may not have caused any major apparent damage to the supports, but they have done some damage.

Imagine you're in a car accident. Your car may be totalled, but you luckily come out of it with no injuries. At least, no *visible* injuries. Your internal organs may actually have suffered some damage, or your bones may have done so. You may not feel it right at the moment, or for hours after the accident. Then later that evening, you feel a sharp pain in your left leg. You rush back to the hospital, and realize your leg bone is cracked from the impact. The same could happen to the steel support beams inside the concrete columns. Also, since concrete is porous, water could still have seeped in over the years, causing the steel to rust. Rusted metal deteriorates into nothing over time.

Now for the train: Some of the support columns were pretty close to the train tracks, according to the video. The vibration of the trains rumbling down the tracks under the bridge had shaken the support beams loose from their anchors over time. That plus the vibrations from the traffic passing over the bridge would have cause the support beams to become loose enough to cause a collapse. It reminds me a bit of the episode of "C.S.I." when an old apartment building collapsed, killing two elderly women. The building had suffered some structural damage, though not major, due to a former tenant trying to chop down a support beam. The beam was repaired, but the nails used to repair had been shaken loose. The building was close to an AFB, with fighter jets flying overhead frequently. The vibrations caused by the jets' engines over the years weakened the structure.

It's possible that three things caused the collapse: The construction work, with the extra weight of the construction equipment, and vibrations cause by working on the bridge, along with the daily traffic, and the train rumbling past underneath, if the train carrying those freight cars that were damaged was running at the time.


thoughts and prayers

I spent my whole drive to work this morning hoping and praying the Lileks family was okay. The bridge collapse was the top story on my local (KY) news this morning, but I didn't have time at home to get online and check out lileks.com or buzz. Thank God they are safe, and thanks, James, for updating both sites.

My prayers go out to all the families involved, particularly those who have loved ones missing--the not knowing would be unbearable for me.

I believe completely in miracles, and I think the fact that 60 kids made it off that bus definitely qualifies.


Reminded of NYS Thruway Bridge Collapse

Like so many others, my first thoughts were for the Lileks family. I thank God you are all OK, and I pray for the families who weren't as lucky.

My second thought was toward 20 years ago in 1987 when a bridge on the NYS Thruway over the Schoharie Creek collapsed killing 10. I lived less ten miles from the collapsed bridge and fortunately didn't know anyone who passed. We heard horror stories for months.

If you are interested, here is some reading about the bridge, the causes for the collapse (not terrorism) and the lessons learned.

http://www.eng.uab.edu/cee/faculty/ndelatte/case_studies_project/Schoharie.

I'll keep all in my prayers.


Uh-Oh

It's never a good sign to turn on Fox News expecting to see O'Reilly and instead see Shepherd Smith interviewing "eyewitnesses." It looks like the people who were involved just were in the wrong place at the wrong time, which could happen to any of us.

Like most of the others here, my first reaction was to wonder about the Minnesota bloggers like you, Captain Ed and the guys at PowerLine. Part of reading blogs is that we feel that we have a personal connection with those bloggers, even if they don't know us. We have more hostages to fortune in more places. My heart goes out to those who are victims of this tragedy and to their families.


Minneapolis is in my thoughts and prayers

. . .for all of those who have suffered a loss. I've never been to MN, the Lileks family are the only folks I know there (via the Buzz and the Bleat), but I am saddened to hear of the injuries and loss of life. My prayers and condolences go out to everyone affected by this tragedy.


I-35W Bridge Collapse: Political Fallout

A Twin Cities bridge
Has fallen down, fallen down.
Pawlenty is screwed.


Seconding your comment about

Seconding your comment about the glorious view from that bridge. I'm moving away from Minn. in a few weeks, and I was driving south over the bridge Monday evening at sunset, marveling at the vista as I have a million times before, and thinking about how much I'll miss driving that particular stretch. (*shaking head*)

I can't even stand to think about the people--what it must have been like to be on there at the moment of collapse, what it must be like for families who have people still missing this morning--so instead I'll deflect to contemplating the woes facing Twin Cities commuters over the next year or two. I've driven 280 even more than I have 35W, over the years, and it is just pathetically inadequate to the demands that are going to be put on it.


Bridge Disaster

You are in thoughts and prayers. May the victims rest in peace and families comforted. May the survivors be nursed back to health, physically. May the horrendous thoughts and feelings of that moment, eventually be lessened.


I hope for the best

Wow. Your city is in our thoughts, I hope more people are clambering out of the river somewhere around Des Moines to be interviewed alive on TV.

The accident immediatly resonated here in Washginton where we have some 3000 bridges. (I cross two bridges and one long elevated section in my commute. ) Our temporary DOT chief was on the air saying that our bridges met federal safety standards yada yada yada. Not much solace there though, I'm sure the same was true for I-35W.

At least the I-35W bridge replacement project is ahead of schedule.


Technology

Thank you for the coverage and the opportunity for people to express thoughts and prayers. I remember one of the last times I passed over that bridge we had decided to take a cab instead of driving. As we passed over and watched the magnificent view, I remarked to my husband that it was nice to be a passenger.

Although my brother lives in Savage, he works at his downtown office a few days a week so I was very concerned. After trying for 45 minutes to reach his cell phone using my cell phone I was getting frantic. I spoke with my mother who was at the lake, and she volunteered to try for awhile. She called me back five minutes later and said that he and his family had just been at church and were fine. She had used her landline to call his landline.

Peace and strength to everyone affected by this tragedy.


Me, too

I, too, immediately wondered if you were okay. And, then I got in contact with everyone I know who lives in Minneapolis to see if they were okay.

All's well with them, but my prayers go out to the families of those who died, and to those who are still missing.


Thinking of You in New York

I too admit the first thing I thought of when hearing this news last night was "I hope Lileks is okay." And of course his family too. Glad to hear that is the case. This is a terrible tragedy (which is rather redundant) and please know we are thinking of you here on Long Island (NY).


Sending prayers and hope from Brooklyn, NY

We are so saddened, and continue to watch the reports in the hopes that more survivors are found. We are praying for everyone in your fair city today.


What about the traffic cameras?

I'm assuming that the traffic cameras MAY have caught the collapse, but I've never heard anyone talk about it. Do those cameras really only take a snapshot every few minutes, or do they stream to MN-DOT? I noticed that the Washington camera was now trained on the bridge (or what's left of it right now), so it is/was functional.


the semi truck driver, and G-d

heard early on in the coverage that the semi driver (that was a Sara Lee truck, formerly Tastee bakery, from up in Roseville) had injuries and was taken to the hospital.

as for the last bit... God doesn't have a whole lot of 'splainin' to do. He just sends messages. The denser we are, the louder the message needs to be sent. we've been pretty dense in this state for a good 20 years or more. I'm hearing, "fix this stuff or suffer."

whole lot of folks here on earth who have a lot of 'splainin' to do, Lucy. we great unwashed masses us, we have a compact with government to do the jobs that are too big for us as persons or little groups. we expect that these jobs won't kill us on a daily basis. in return, we pay for it in taxes. cut one, lose the other. this has been a temporal religion for some folks, and greed has led a lot of followers to this temple.

whose roof has just fallen in.

you got a lot of 'splainin' to do here, Lucy.


eerie

After events slowed down last night, I recalled the post yesterday which mentioned "History-wise, It’s another month of Biblical plagues."

At least it looks like people were fortunate, and this doesn't fall under the heading 'biblical'.


Unbelievable

First we heard of the incident was when my mother called asking if we were all okay. That was followed by a call from the in-laws and friends in Baltimore. Amazing how something like this brings people across the nation (if not world - I notice the story made at least the London, Moscow and Australian papers) together into a concerted focus.

I've often thought the view from that bridge was unparalleld, and have found myself more than once smiling at the Minneapolis cityscape as I came around that last curve on southbound 35W onto the bridge. Or the many times I saw the bridge from the river. Hard to take something for granted for so many years and then see it fall.

I'm grateful for those risking safety to help those who've been hurt, or to recover those who have died. And I'm completely unimpressed with the cowards leveling blame for this at the feet of another, especially when doing so anonymously. Grow up. There is a time for that inanity later. Have some compassion now.


Collapse Theories

There's a lot of speculation going around, but some things are worth clarifying.

First, that Fark link James posted has some pictures put up that are clearly of other bridges. Whether out or sarcasm or sick humor, such things will propogate stories of terrorism or sabotage.

Based upon the reports of people on the bridge, the most common thing was the sense that "my car is having trouble," and then falling. Doesn't seem like any kind of explosion was involved.

Regarding that stretch of the river, barges do not travel that far north as a rule. Saint Paul is the place where barges stop; the locks upstream aren't large enough for barge traffic, was my understanding. There's lots of tourist traffic and pleasure craft. I don't think there are any "ice breakers," as this stretch of the river is not a commercial trade route. I do not believe that there were any vessels large enough to damage the concrete piers. In any event, the piers were on the shoreline, not in the middle of the channel.

The railroad yard there was originally part of the supply for the Pillsbury mill, and I believe I read that it supplied coal to the power plant on the river there. The tracks do not procede further north; I suspect that this is a dead-end section used for storage of cars. So the idea of high-speed freights rumbling by, causing damage, seems unlikely. I suspect the vibration of traffic on the bridge was greater, both in amplitude and frequency, than anything the trains could do.

The items I heard on the news last night include the safety engineer James linked to -- he was responding to a 2006 report talking about stress fractures in the girders -- and another report from a U. Minn. study done in 2000 or 2001 indicating no problems on the bridge. The question of what caused the fractures, how many there were, and their extent, is one that must be answered.

There was another comment by someone suggesting that the removal of portions of lanes of the decking caused the boxes to collapse. I don't think this was the case. I'm not an engineer, but if you look at old pictures of the bridge, you can see lots of cross-girders in the structure from underneath. Granted, concrete is good in compression, but some of those diagonal girders would have had to fail early in order for the concrete to be the only thing keeping the bridge up.

Jacob


Quote

"You always felt proud to be here when you crossed that bridge, pleased to live in such a beautiful place. Didn’t matter if it was summer twilight or hard cold winter noon - Minneapolis always seemed to be standing at attention, posing for a formal portrait."

This was just quoted on Fox News.


Thought of You

I know I am adding to the long list of people who have said this, but when I heard about the bridge collapse, I thought about you and your family and hoped you were ok. I am so happy to see that, indeed, you are.

Don't get too flattered though, you are the only person I vaguely know that lives in Minnesota (and that is to say, I read the Bleat and listen to your podcast, which is my absolute favorite, in fact). Anyway, I am glad you and your family are safe.

Keep up the good work.

Minnesota, you are in my thoughts.

-Katie from California by way of Virginia


Probable Cause

It turns out that Michael Moore had recently ordered a new pair of pants, and the FedEx truck carrying them had just reached the center of the span when it happened.

We'll have to wait for forensics to be sure.


Thoughts and Prayers

My thoughts and prayers are with all of Minneapolis. I do not know anyone there either, but my first thought was of the Lileks family as well. Colorado is thinking about and praying for you!


I am blown away by all the

I am blown away by all the folks who say "At least the children are safe! It's a MIRACLE!!"

Um, hello, people--SEVEN PEOPLE ARE DEAD; IT IS NOT A "MIRACLE"!

How would you like it if your wife, or father, or co-worker had died, and yet all you heard on the news was about a bus of kids who survived? I'd be mighty pissed!

Why are children the only ones who matter?? Please think of the DEAD here and their families. Just because they weren't CHILDREN doesn't mean their deaths are trivial. Would you look their families in the eye and say "It was a MIRACLE those children survived!!!!"??? How about some compassion.

I will never understand folks who believe a death is only tragic if it's a child! At what age are people too old to matter?

My heart goes out to the families of the ADULTS who died in this tragedy.


Melissa Hughes

I keep seeing reports about Melissa Hughes and her baby narrowly escaping their vehicle when the bridge collapsed and a pickup fell on top of their car. Melissa was alone in her car. The baby was not with her. The baby was brought to her mother at the scene of the accident by her father.


Hymn of Breaking Strain (first verse)

THE CAREFUL text-books measure
(Let all who build beware!)
The load, the shock, the pressure
Material can bear.
So, when the buckled girder
Lets down the grinding span,
The blame of loss, or murder,
Is laid upon the man.
Not on the Stuff—the Man!
-- Rudyard Kipling, 1935


Clarification for Jacob

You are dead on. Some of the diagonal girders would have to fail to turn the concrete decking into the last support keeping the truss structure from twisting and rapidly failing. The DATA from the 2001 study DOES INDICATE that the bridge was already failing. The conclusions at the time failed to grasp HOW MUCH SUPPORT LOAD HAD BEEN TRANSFERED TO THE DECKING. The report conclusion is simply wrong while the data contained is dead on. This data is being looked at very hard by quiet a few engineers as we speak.

There is more video becoming available that reinforces what was theorized earlier. The collapsed was initiated by the uncontrolled twisting of the upriver main arch somewhere between the Cemet truck and the section where the road is folded under longways.

The failure was NOT initiated near the railcar siding as seen in video. The failure was not initiated by the concrete column supports failing as the bridge would have come down without the massive longitudinal twist that we can clearly see.


"Underfunding education"...

HA! It couldn't hardly get any more "funded" and yet do a poorer job.

Our hearts were in our mouths watching the news coverage. All the people of the Twin Cities have our sincere sympathy.


compassion

Adam--

How does children miraculously living through this take away from the tragedy? I'd like to see the reaction of the parents when you tell them their children living isn't a miracle.


Minneapolis tragedy

I am so sad for the people of Minneapolis. The city is my second home--in fact, I DID have a home in Plymouth back in the 90s. I must gently disagree, though, that the view from the now-collapsed bridge was the best in the city. In my mind, that honor goes to the Franklin Avenue bridge over I-35W. Go up there on a clear night, and the panorama laid out before you is breathtaking. On my last visit to the Cities last fall, I took a friend from New York City up there and asked, "Nicer than Manhattan?" "You betcha!" she replied, in perfect Minnesota-ese. My prayers are with you all.


Lileks and family

Like many here, my first thought was about Our Editor and his family. Unfortunately, I heard the news while driving, so I couldn't check the internet till much later. Glad you're OK.


Because...

Melissa-

Guess what? Those seven people ARE someone's children, they've just grown up. Again, I want you top contact these families and tell them "Well, I'm sorry your loved one died, but...it sure was a miracle that no CHILDREN died, huh?"

BTW there were many OTHER survivors who also could have been killed, yet someone nobody talks about the "miracle" that saved them. How is a child living a "miracle" but not, say, the driver of that same bus? I'm just calling out people's hypocrisy and double standards.

This was a random event, where (thankfully) most people lived, but some did not. The latter group were in the wrong place at the time. Most of the folks who lived, which includes a bus (why was a school bus on the road at that time of day full of kids, anyway?), but this was not a "miracle", it was just one of those things. A "miracle" would have saved EVERYONE, or better yet, the bridge would have collapsed with nobody on it at all. Why do we only hear of "miracles" when it's a chld(red) involved?

Those of you who like to believe the "Hand of God" reaches in to rescue little children, or whatever, are conveniently forgetting that the same "Hand of God" allowed seven adults to die when He could have very easily saved them, too. Or best of all He could have prevented the bridge from collapsing at all!

There was no divine intervention here, sorry. If you think there was, please attend seven funerals that'll be held next week and get back with me...


I don't know God's mind

And I certainly don't diminish the tragedy of the deaths (of which there will likely be more confirmations in the coming days.)

But I can grieve for those lost and still rejoice for those who survived.

Frankly, looking at the pictures, I find it miraculous anyone survived.


"Finally: Sixty children on

"Finally: Sixty children on the bus. Sixty children alive. There’s chance, and there’s miracles. Take your choice. "

Using logic, you'd think that if there really was someone watching from the sky, and he had the power to save those sixty children on the bus, he'd have been smart enough to action long before the bridge collapsed and people were killed. Your god sure likes to pick and choose, James.

Sixty children are alive because the bus didn't fall into the river or get slammed by debris. It's pretty simple, really; there's no need to think that it was anything other than the luck of the draw.


Must Be Nice

to know better than God what He should/shouldn't do. I'm not nearly smart enough, not being omniscient, or strong enough, not being omnipotent, to have that kind of authority over God.

Guess I'm just stuck believing that someone who can see everything might know better than little ol' me, who can't even see what I'll have for lunch tomorrow.

Just because God can do something doesn't mean He's obligated to. He has the greater good and the bigger picture in mind. I'm sure He grieves over the death, but will use this event for a greater good we can't see yet. Don't be so arrogant as to think you know better than God what He should do; you're not the boss of Him.


damage to our community

Thank you for putting words to a feeling I have been struggling with.

I will miss driving that road.
I will miss that marvelous view.
I will miss the physical connections that keep our area together. I hope we restore them.


Miracles?

Lileks, I value your perspective. But when you write, "There’s chance, and there’s miracles. Take your choice," it really grates. Why did God let the bridge fall in the first place? Or was that "chance"? Is it chance when someone dies, but a miracle when someone lives? Does God only get the credit for the good things?

Further, you seem to be implying that those of us who would choose "chance" somehow value those young lives less than those who choose "miracles." Grating, indeed.


Redundancy!!

This is the first I have learned that we have bridges built without "redundancy", i.e. no back-ups. This seems to me a case of arrogance driven by economics. The first aircraft used a single system for hydraulics, electrics and other major functions, when one failed, down you go. Bridges, like aircraft, transport us through a body of space where we win over the force of gravity. If gravity wins in either case, we stand to die. Not to have redundancy/back-ups in bridge construction is just plain arrogant; as to say: 'we are infallible - we build, maintain, inspect and assure with infallibility'. Never been the case and never will be, tragically proven at 35W. The bottom line: we're human and therefore we err, we are not, and never will be, perfect - the bridge fell because someone thought they could be. We lost on this roll of the dice.


No one's fault?

They knew this bridge was bad - normally these bridges are inspected every three years. This one was being inspected every year, because it was in bad shape. I'm sure the inspectors told the Transportation Department this bridge wasn't safe, but they decided to gamble with people's lives and not fix it. Bridges don't just fall down. After Hurricane Katrina, the occupation of Iraq, and the recent mine disasters, where warnings went ignored and then catastrophe struck, it becomes apparent that the government considers our lives to be cheap.


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